Topic: Questionable "internal" engine modifications.

[Eatondirt]

Aftermarket heads on a Kohler were deemed illegal by the Uslmra.  Whether they were cast or billet.  I would say this would be the same ruling.  It should not be brand specific.  Kohler was descused because the castings were already being made.

[Cromwell C4]

Aftermarket heads on a Kohler were deemed illegal.  Whether they were cast or billet.  I would say this would be the same ruling.  It should not be brand specific.  Kohler was descused because the castings were already being made.

Aftermarket or custom billet heads are legal in ARMA in the super mod classes, as they should be in a top of the tier open type class.  The prepared classes are a different story and should use oem block, heads, intakes etc.

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[DeereRacer]

What about 2 barrel carbs and intake manifold on Kohler 20 hp v-twins? They never came that way from the factory and looks nothing like the stock single barrel.

[George Herrin]

Aftermarket or custom billet heads are legal in ARMA in the super mod classes, as they should be in a top of the tier open type class.  The prepared classes are a different story and should use oem block, heads, intakes etc.

And I totally disagree with that and always have...And my reasoning is not open for discussion.

[more4les]

And I totally disagree with that and always have...And my reasoning is not open for discussion.

Which part George? The allowing of aftermarket heads in SM? OLe do you think allowed across the board? I'm guessing they should never be allowed is your statement.

Lester

[George Herrin]

Across the board. And especially the Super Mod classes. One must use OEM Block and Heads. Its not an open class or the rules would say that. Gotta keep the classes within reach. You get to stupid and they will die. WHY because only a hand full would be able to afford it. I fought this tooth n nail back when rules were being made. Talked till I was blue in the face. Thats why my club rules are as they are.

[BIG AL 202]

Across the board. And especially the Super Mod classes. One must use OEM Block and Heads. Its not an open class or the rules would say that. Gotta keep the classes within reach. You get to stupid and they will die. WHY because only a hand full would be able to afford it. I fought this tooth n nail back when rules were being made. Talked till I was blue in the face. Thats why my club rules are as they are.

I AGREE, IF YOU ALLOW ONE OFF BILLETT BLOCKS AND HEADS WHATS NEXT? YOU END UP WITH A HAND GERNADE BETWEEN 4 WHEELS. THE CLASS HAS 5 OR 6 PEOPLE IN IT ALL COMPLAINING ABOUT LAPPERS, THE SAME GUY WINNING ALL THE TIME. JUST LIKE BERT SAID "YOU WANT TO KILL LAWNMOWER RACING, ADD SUSPENSION"! I BELIEVE HIGH END, ONE OFF BILLETT ENGINES WOULD BE A WASTE ON MONEY AND KILL THE CLASS. REALISTICLY YOU COULD BUY A FLOW BENCH AND TIG WELDER [USED ] AND MODIFY HEADS AND BOLCKS AND STILL SAVE MONEY!

[Cromwell C4]

The rules ARMA has now are fine. In the super mod class you must start with an OEM mower block, and the heads can be aftermarket or stock castings. It would actually be cheaper for the serious builders if there were billet heads for the popular engines. Spending a ton of time on stock heads welding up chambers/ ports, installing big valves/ seats, port job, and then flow bench time adds up to a large sum of money very quickly, especially if you are paying a race shop to do it.  You could have a much better product, designed for peak performance and reliability with a billet head and the cost would be cheaper if produced in quantity. But in the end only so much power can be put to the ground anyway so its not really even worth the trouble. Spending the extra time on chassis setup and consistent driving will win more races than just a high hp engine anyway. That's been proven over and over. 

Al, I do agree that no billet or aftermarket blocks should ever be allowed. The stock blocks will only handle so much and will always limit the classes.

[George Herrin]

I think I have proved that a stock head stock block flat tappet motor can run with the best of anything out there on any given day, and do it far more dependable with nowhere near the money. Far more so than those so called high end after market parts being used. And my ports are not welded up and moved and my chambers are not either. Go figure. In fact I can make any motor out their run like mine w/o all that crap. Oh and they live alot longer than those after market parts do too!!! Like I said I disagree with ARMA,s engine rules on the super mod classes. Did from the start argued it from the start and will never agree with it. It is detrimental to the sport!!! And I will always run them high end aftermarket head motors in the ground with my 42 cube oem block n head motor. SO let the P!$$ing contest start. I am done and said my piece.

[fx28]

Why would anyone be interested in what it costs to run in the supermod- fxt class ?  That is what it was for to begin with for the ones that have an unlimited budget. I have heard the quote before that you cant stop the progression of the sport and this is what it is evolving to.  Lets just put a hood on a the kart chassis and save some money and have more equality !    Be carefull what you wish for , you might get more than you ask for

[redline]

I want an unlimited budget.
Right now, all I have is a Bert with a bad hip.

[berthyd]

I want an unlimited budget.
Right now, all I have is a Bert with a bad hip.

And a bad back and bad knees. That is why God created beer, the universal pain killer.

Chuck is right, be careful what you ask for. The Supersportsman/BP class is salty enough, but the twin mods are especially so. Nothing personal here, George, but what do the mod classes have in common with a lawn mower? A hood and grill? Maybe the engine? Mower racing is emulating any other pro racing class in America. The tech and the costs are rising far above what the normal racer can afford. And having said that, I don't feel the racing entertainment value has gone up with the money.

Used to be Nascar fans could identify with what was on the track. And that fan, with proper skills, could actually build what was on the track. Same with Indy. Now, as with pro racing, your typical potential mower racing participant has neither the skill, tools or budget to do what we're doing, and it's killing the sport. Participation is down, and it seems venues are getting harder to come by.

We also have way too many classes. I am honestly unable to tell what all the classes are without checking a rule book. There is no upside to this. BUILD TO AN EXISTING CLASS. There is no need to form a new national class simply because "a bunch of our guys locally race (fill in blank here)."

How about 3 classes? Governed, single cylinder prepared and twin cylinder prepared? Increase class participation, and reduce the rule book content by 50%. Keep all the billet stuff out. No homemade frames. Keep everything looking like a lawn mower.

Just my thoughts, right or wrong. I've been racing mowers since 1991, before we had a national association of any kind. I owned a dirt late model for several years before that. I have been a student of racing forever, and I am no longer a Nascar fan nor an Indy car fan. Those series have been ruined by money and technology. And I have rock-rooted opinions based on my experience in mower racing. I don't see a bright future here, either.

My back hurts now, so I am off to medicate.

Bert

[cycloneracer]

The heads on my FXT are basicly stock heads that were worked to match the recast heads.  It would of been much cheaper to start with the recast heads.  But I told Zach I wasn't going to be breaking the rules.  That is also why the BP engine we built used the stock valve covers and the Kohler carb.

The FX classes aren't cheap to build or run.  I remember not to long ago everyone wanted the FX classes to be unlimited.  Now we want limits.  

Bert I am in the process of working on adding 2 more classes.   Just because I think we need them........

[berthyd]

And just for the record, I have fabulous hips. The chicks all tell me so...

Paul, would one of the new classes be based on combines???

Bert

[cycloneracer]

And just for the record, I have fabulous hips. The chicks all tell me so...

Paul, would one of the new classes be based on combines???

Bert

Combines are to expensive.  But Turbo diesels.  And propane.