Topic: Who would build it?

[mcollins]

Who would build one if there was an "Outlaw Twin" class?
rules:
42" wide
42" wheel base
2" ride height
build your own square tube frame 15" max frame width
Any offset
Hoosier 6" tire and wheel rule (run any width on any axle)
Front and rear disc brakes mandatory
STOCK hood and STOCK rear fenders (for the mower look)
Air cooled,vert or horizontal
STOCK 49ci or less block casting (no billet)
Any internal or external mods
Any race gas or alky (no nitro)
Any ignition
All the usually safety rules apply
I know its to much power to put to the ground, but it would be fun! Less rules less complaining about being beat. Open for comments and suggestions

[Rocket Ron]

Mike, Is'nt that what a super mod.--Outlaw twin allready is???? Please Don't invent a nother class....

[mcollins]

Well I thought so Ron but every year more rules pop up it seems......I'm not trying to invent another class, maybe the guys who run (race) these classes should have more say in the rule department! Maybe they do and I'm out of the loop? Any thoughts?

[Rocket Ron]

You'er right But racer's cant be rule makers if so only mega dollar teams could race!! I've watched super twin & super single be one of the fastest growing classes to date because of the saftey factor. the people that used to ride Those anamial called BP's change to this class because of the safer feelor there brain grew up???

[Cromwell C4]

If you are on tight budget, you probably shouldn't be running an "Outlaw" class, or a Supermod single/twin. That is what the lower classes are for.. The outlaw style classes are supposed to be for experienced racers and builders only. The racers in this category are not afraid to spend big money on what they enjoy and do what it takes to win.

Mike, I would love to see a class ruled this way. No gray area and straight forward. Plus, it would be easy to tech the machines and eliminate any reason for complaining for the majority (some people will still complain no matter what happens).

[Nicks]

I dont know how u guys run back east but that is all the specs exactly to what our guys out here in cali build. Mines all made by 1x2 tubing and is 15" wide outside which is 13" inside,0.065" wall thickness. Mines a hair under 2" from ground,super low,8" rear 6" fronts, i have a question for u guys because here we pretty much have two classes,stock and modifieds,slow and fast,whats the real difference between fxs,fxt,and outlaw?? We just consider ours outlaws

[Rocket Ron]

Mr. Cromwell I think my Budget will allow me to race with the best of them my concern was for the rest of the comp.I've watched many forms of racing outprice most of the whole field of racers till there were only two or three in the class and that ai'nt good for the sport of any racing

[mcollins]

I understand what your saying Ron, and I agree that it one or two teams in a class is not good. I was thinking more on chassis things, the top teams now are doing almost everything to their motors and making big power. Some with big $ some without. Why add all the rules, same size tires on each side per axle, certain octane, no alcohol, stock frame rails, certain offset. Let people experiment with that stuff...... it might make for better racing. I don't think it will happen I started this to see what everyone else thinks, all in fun

[leadslead]

Longs it's. Safe run what yer brung if yea lap every one in heat start in the back for featcher ... Just my thought  ...... Some of the $$ u can dump in to a single or twin is crazy but when u grab a hand full $$ well spent .

[George Herrin]

Personally the FX class is allowed to do more than the FXS OR FXT which dont make sense. They are allowed different soze tires they are allowed to scratch build a frame to. Here at BTMRA we allow a scratch built frame as you propose  Mike already. In fact I am building one myself. It will be 42 wide 2" off the ground but will be 47" wheel base. I am not gonna build any offset on it either. In fact this is our rules as written for the last two years...
• CHASSIS: ENGINE MUST BE IN THE FRONT. Mower chassis are recommended but you can build your frame. IF so frames must be 1x2 or 1x3 rectangular tubing max 15” wide 51” long (end to end) this does not include front axle. Front axles must be welded rigid eliminating the pivoting. No frames notched and put over kart chassis.  However material (steel round or square) may be added for structural strength. It is mandatory that front axles be bolted or welded rigid eliminating the stock pivoting.
• RIDE HEIGHT: 2" minimum from lowest point of chassis 4" maximum height.
• WHEEL BASE: 42" minimum 48” maximum.
• OVERALL WIDTH: Wheel width max 42" wide. Offset allowed and measured from center of chassis. Maximum offset is center of chassis to outside right tire 23" and center of chassis to outside left tire 19"
and our engine rules are as you stated also..
ENGINE: Single 33 ci max. Twin 49 ci max. Both may use Vertical or Horizontal. Internal and external modifications are permitted for all engines. After-market aluminum billet flywheels are MANDATORY. Modifications to the block and heads are unlimited BUT must use OEM BLOCK n HEADS.
I think limiting the wheel base to 42" max will hurt for bigger guys. I ran a 44" wheel base on my forst and was very uncomfortable.  We also allow alcohol to be used.
And to be honest there is more scratch built frames out there than anyone cares to admit running in the BIG SANCTION groups. Some are well disguised some not so!!!
I have argued this point and the fact a lesser class FX is allowed to do more than us to no avail. I look at it this way. IF enough of us smaller groups agree on a set of rules and  implement them and enough build em what can anyone do!!! Heck we are fully insured with great insurance too. Which any club can get. Used to be a time that wasn't possible. but gives us the opportunity to taylor things that fits us better.

[Jeff Digou (Pitguy)]

Why no offset George ?   I also planned on no offset on my Limited Mod also.

[George Herrin]

Something different... And I ran BP for years no offset. I have built several here for customers that way it works well so I figured I would try it myself.

[mcollins]

I agree with ya George! Seems to me the "top" few classes should have the lesser rules. Either way I'm having fun, just never liked or understood some of the rules!

[willenglish]

Im not a big fan of rules myself...but there is a lot of dissent and argument about what even constututes a "mower". There is one group that wants a mower to remain a mower...but the genie is well and truly out of the bottle on this school of thought.Then there are those that  want a truly unlimited class. As racing has progressed...it has became very  apparant that at the level of competition today...most OEM mower componants are NOT up to the task of being even marginally reliable. This list includes flywheels, wheels, brakes, transmissions, every single steering componant,  and even reinforced  OEM chassis. That dosnt leave much that is actually "mower"....about all thats left mower...is body parts...and in my opinion...thats enough mower for me. As the sport progresses...even less mower parts will be used. Thats just the way racing...any racing is. One question...why such an aversion to round tubing? Its much more available...and less expensive than square or rectangular chromoly tubing? Chassis are always going to be fabricated...round tubing could actually SAVE a few bucks...

[mcollins]

I figured square tubing cause "karts" are round tube and nobody wants to be called a kart lol. I don't have a problem with round, and I agree with you that most "mower" parts are long gone when you move up to the FXS and FXT. Thats why I figure stock hood and fenders and bam....theres your mower. I surprised more people haven't chimed in on this subject!