Author Topic: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison  (Read 48304 times)

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Offline Squidd

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700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« on: December 16, 2006, 08:04:20 PM »
A lot of interest has been shown in selecting the "correct" tranny...With the Peerless 700 being the tranny of choice for racing...

Whenever someone posts a pic or mentions a foote 3 speed several will respond with "It's Junk"..."make a door stop out of it"...

And then a couple will respond with "Yeah, But...." "Sami's running one""Squidds running one" ..

And the the "Yeah But..." (light, governed, etc...)

So I thought I'd do a side by side tear down so we can all see just what the differences are and whether we should run 'em or junk 'em...depending on the application...

Obviously they have been placed and running in stock mowers of many different variety for many years, so we can assume they are not going to "blow up" just sitting in the garage...

But, how much power do we want to chance putting to them...and do they have a place in our builds...???

The "Victims"...782 Peerless 5 speed and standard Foote 3 speed of the 2010 or 2210 variety (exact model unknown at this point...)


 


Randy Stys
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 63 Cub Cadet S/A

Offline Squidd

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2006, 08:14:36 PM »
First thing you notice is how "similar" they look at first glance...Other than the Foote being a "H" pattern 3 speed and the 700 a R-N-1-2-3-4-5 in line pattern...Output gear on same side



Case shape is almost the same, and mounting pattern "identical"...with 6 bolt pattern and input shaft locations interchangeable...



So if you have a Foote and later switch to 700...they will be a direct bolt in swap...

Randy Stys
"Pull My Finger"
 63 Cub Cadet S/A

Offline Squidd

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2006, 08:21:00 PM »
First differences we see are in the output shaft and drive gear...



The 700 has a 5/8" shaft with a 32 tooth spline "grabbing" the gear and an "C" clip holding it on..

The Foote has a 1/2" shaft with 1/8" moon key for the gear, same "C" clip retainer..



 But the actual counter shaft bushings are identical at 5/8"
Randy Stys
"Pull My Finger"
 63 Cub Cadet S/A


Offline Squidd

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2006, 08:25:52 PM »
On the top case we can see the identifying R-1-2-3 "H" pattern on the foot and the shifter shaft on the 700...

This particular Foote has a short shaft front shift adaptor, but they can also be forun with a more typical long rod and ball shift rod...


Randy Stys
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Offline Squidd

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2006, 08:35:00 PM »
Opening them up we start to see some differences...

Foote has 8 bolts holding case halves together...700 has 6...

First glance, the Foote looks to have bigger wider stronger gears...!!



Gotta clean that :censored: out to really see what we have...
Randy Stys
"Pull My Finger"
 63 Cub Cadet S/A

Offline Squidd

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2006, 08:40:16 PM »
Cases themselves seem to be of the same material and thickness...

Here you can see the shifter "forks" of the Foote in the top half of case...and extra reinforcing ribs in the bottom...


Randy Stys
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Offline Squidd

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2006, 08:50:19 PM »
With both cases open, lets take a look at the input shaft...

Both have a 5/8" X 1 1/8" shaft with a 3/16" moon key...

Both have needle bearings (2) in the lower case supporting the shaft...



The 700 has a full 5/8" shaft (including bearing surface) with a 32 spline and clip holding the pinion gear.
The Foot steps to 9/16" for the bearing surface and then to 1/2" with 3/32" key for input gear.


Randy Stys
"Pull My Finger"
 63 Cub Cadet S/A


Offline Chris

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2006, 09:11:27 PM »
From the tear down that foote makes the peerless look weak
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Offline Squidd

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2006, 09:15:45 PM »
Looking at the gear sets and counter shafts, we see the some of the biggest differences between the two...

Foots has 5/8" shafts full length...and carries the "key" shaft retainers throughout the gear sets...smallest being the 1/8" key in the "Spur" gear with 3/16" in the shift gears...



700 starts with 5/8" bushings as well then steps up to 3/4" and 7/8" on counter shaft and 1" and 1 1/8" on the shift shaft...



First impression would be "Look how big the 700 shafts are..and the little keys in the Foote...700 must be stronger"

But take another look at the shift keys... 1/4" wide, but only the "tip" of the triangle engages a gear at any particular shift point....where the Foote has full 1/2" of 3.16" key in every gear but spur...




Randy Stys
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Offline Squidd

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2006, 09:28:33 PM »
Cleaned up and going back together...

Basic layouts are similar with "twisting" shifter fork in 700 and the sliding shifter cogs in the Foote being the visual differences...



One area common to both (as well as 800 and 900 transaxels as well as others) is the brass bushings....

They have a small "triangle" to position them in the case and to keep them from rolling...



And a matching "notch" in the lower case half...Be sure to seat these properly, or you will experience "binding" when you torque the halves together...Probably the most common mistake in assembly... (yes, been there, done that too...)

Randy Stys
"Pull My Finger"
 63 Cub Cadet S/A

Offline George Herrin

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2006, 09:36:06 PM »
But run that FOOTE and see how far it takes you with a real hot motor.
George Herrin #6
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Offline Squidd

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2006, 09:38:08 PM »
Before we close them up lets take a closer look at the "shift forks" on the top half of Foote...

 

Being a thin steel, they can bend and bind under "rough" shifting... Clutch in and precision shifting avoids "jambing" gears...
Randy Stys
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Offline matt25001149

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2006, 09:40:44 PM »
 
But run that 500 and see how far it takes you with a real hot motor.

not sure i follow george?
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Offline Squidd

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2006, 09:45:50 PM »
Shaft wise, bushing wise, bearing wise and case wise they are very similar...

The biggest difference (as George is alluding to) is the "keys" in the shafts and gears of the Foote are a much weaker setup  (think "shear key" on flywheel) than the 32 tooth splines of the 700 shaft/gears...

On a lower torque setup, lower HP, governed rpm engine (such as Sami's SS) they will run and hold up just fine...

It's when you start applying high "twisting" torque (bigger motor) or "snap and shear" from popping clutch and jamb shifting or wheel hop, that the weaker keys will become apparent...
Randy Stys
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 63 Cub Cadet S/A

Offline chini

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Re: 700 vs. Foote... Side by Side Comparison
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2006, 09:54:34 PM »
  Fine presentation Squidd,that will learn me alot.  Kevin
Kevin Pierachini