Topic: Salsbury 600 engine

[jetblast7442]

I am new to this site and I need some  advice from race engine builders. I have a 1950 Salsbury 600 engine. It is rated 6 1/2 HP at 3200 Rpm. I want to increase the Hp and the rpm to the max allowable. It weighs 56 pounds. 19.4 cu in (318cc) or 1/2 hp per cu in. Bore and stroke 3" x 2 3/4".
   Can anyone give me some instruction on where to proceed?

thanks
 Jetblast

[royalblu68f100]

I have never even heard of one of these.  It should be fairly rare, which would lead me to ask why mod a rare engine?  Also the parts should be nearly impossible to find to replace something if it broke.

[THawley08]

Better off finding another motor. You are going to need to make one off parts for that to get more RPM's out of it. That being said one off parts are not cheap, you could easily build a complete 28 flatty for probably about half of what you are going to spend in a rod and flywheel. Also with it being 54 pounds and only 6.5 hp thats a TON of dead weight. My advice go with a motor that is already being used and save headaches, time, and money.

[Squidd]

I bet it would bring in some good money from a collector..

[jetblast7442]

Thank you for the response. Here is my racer. 1949 Salsbury 85 Imperial Rocket with factory sidecar only 4 known to exist). It currently holds the Motor-Scooter International Land speed Federation 250cc+ record of 42 mph set in 2010. It is valuable. I want it to go faster. I have 2 spare engines worth roughly 2500. One I am going to modify and increase my speed. I am not a machinist but I can work on things but need advice from small engine builders and racers. I don't know about cams, or where to have one worked on who is an expert.
   Any advice is greatly appreciated.

thank You

Jetblast 

[Rooster]

Most any production small engine can be improved upon.

My first advice would to be find a good small engine builder close to you to work with, some things we just are not going to be able to tell you with out seeing the engine. Most of us do not give advice about engines we do not know!

One problem is this...most of us either use known good practices, or we experiment. By experiment I mean....we have a stack of engines to build and toss when things don't work out!

With your all but irreplaceable engine, there are no known good practices I would assume? SO proceed slowly with small changes at a time about anything can be undone except for catastrophic failure.

There really are 2 routes to go...

You can mildly work it over for just a bit more power, or you can get radical with it.

If you want to go plum nuts, like has been said you are going to need alot of custom parts and a big wallet!

You can do some port and polish work if you know how, or have someone that knows how to do it. On an engine that rare I would want some one with a flow bench to do the head & block work.Really on a mild rework the bench is worth more than on a really radical change.

For a Camshaft I would definitely call Tim Iskenderian at www.smallenginecams.com (310)769-6880. He is familiar with scooters.

I am sure some head work could help it out as well. Carb tuning, work on the intake, etc etc etc. Basically every thing you do to any race engine.

Again, we cannot really give any specifics without knowing the engine!

[Squidd]

Now it makes sence to build it..

[redline]

Does it have to remain governed? If so, at what rpm?

George and Bert need to get one of these, they would look good cruising on it.

[Rooster]

Curious...how is it a 60+ year old scooter holds the record, and it is only 42MPH....I had a Honda Scooter 20 years ago that did over 50?

[royalblu68f100]

I am with Rooster, IF you can sacrifice one of those motors I would have a local head specialist take a look at it.  I would try to find a very good local machine shop so you can transport it yourself and be there when it is worked on.  I assume it is a valve in block motor, so this would mean any porting could result in a messed up block.  Your cam is very important, improvements in air flow, carb., and ignition could really improve the performance.  But since you already have a speed record I assume that you have done some of this.  I know for a fact that shipping internationally is very expensive, as is the insurance on something of this sort.  I also know that many of the motorcycle racers in Europe use American racing head specialists to get optimum performance from their bikes. Best of luck though, it is very neat what you are doing.Its a cc thing, different sizes for different classes.  I assume, Rooster, that you are referring to a Honda Helix?

[Burwell555]

Does it have to remain governed? If so, at what rpm?

George and Bert need to get one of these, they would look good cruising on it.

Good starting point right there!!



But G and Bert on scooters?? I can see the next class ARMA will add 

[redline]

G would have to drive with Bert in the sidecar. I have witnessed bert drive...2 laps is about all he has in him.

[jetblast7442]

Thank you for your help.
  I ran the scooter at he first motor-scooter land speed trials at Devore Ca. in 2010. Here is the website for anyone who wants to run their scooter.
     http://www.motorscooterlandspeedfederation.org/

My scooter is stock and original except for the piston (Wisconsin). It hasn't been over hauled and is dragging a factory sidecar. Weight of the rig with my fat butt on it is 580 pounds. Considering its age and weight 42 mph is decent but not great. With out the sidecar probably 50+. The Bonneville (speed week)record for sc-vg, which means sidecar vintage gas (vintage is pre 1956) is 46 mph ,with a modified Cushman engine. There are hundreds of classifications between engine and chassis combinations at Bonneville. sc-vg is just one of them. Some classifications have never had someone run in.
   I have included a site by Bob Jungbluth, on a water cooled Cushman engine that was in the machine at Bonneville which still holds the record (2003) for sc-vg.
   http://www.hobbytech.com/bobsengine/Motor1.htm
This is worth the read. Its hard to believe what he did to a Cushman M-8 engine to get 25 hp @7000 rpm for his midget.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Jetblast

[The Tank]

Id eat the salsbury lol.

[jetblast7442]

On another subject. My Salsbury has an internal gear driven oil pump. I have entertained the thought of finding a small electric external oil pump and using it to lub the engine. Has anyone experimented with external pumps and where can I find one. I have spent hours on the web looking for one. I believe it could work. The pump on a Salsbury is the weak link.

Thanks

jetblast