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Author Topic: Thinking of getting into it...  (Read 60530 times)
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Big daddy
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2010, 01:18:06 PM »

I think Nichols is the only one who had any of the Firestones of any stock left. They are no longer made. First thing I would do is decide which class you want to shoot for then you can plan and scheme your way to get there. Anymore there are several purpose built tires for garden tractor pulling to choose from. The main consideration is where are you going to pull and what kind of tracks. (i.e. indoors 150ft tracks or outdoors 300ft. tracks), as well as track type loose,power,hard. For "general" purpose I choose Cepeks, but there are some tracks where Vogel's work better. I do like Chuck's tires in that they are less expensive. There are a lot of parts for sale now on GT pulling's classified section. The rational is correct for using the 26's instead of the 23's-totally agree there!!

http://www.gtpulling.com/classifieds/index.php
I keep my on things there waiting for something I need.
Good Luck!!
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Bruce Litton
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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2010, 04:38:15 PM »

well im glad you went for the cub... my dad and i used to run central ohio tire and chassis we built tractors and dad sharpened tires... we have since retired for the tractor pulling game... but i just went to the columbus winter nationals over last weekend and every stock alt. tractor there was running either cepeks, lawn tecs, or vogels... and as far a motor shoot for the 16 if your rules allow... midwest supercub can set you up with all the parts you could ever dream of... and make sure you find yourself a good pulling clutch the stock one wont hold up real long... but like i said search for midwest super cub and check out their site and give them a call they are a bunch of good people and wont steer you in the wrong direction...
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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2010, 03:39:47 PM »

What's the deal on the front tires...?

I see some machines with tiny 3.5x5x8 fronts and others with 4x10 or 4x12 fronts....and not many wide fronts..is there a prefered front tire and pattern ?

How important are the front tires and steering action when going relatively straight for a short distance..? (I know, safe and secure, but are they a critical factor in the pull stratigy? )
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Randy Stys
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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2010, 03:39:47 PM »

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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2010, 03:52:19 PM »

You will not necessarily change the ring and pinion out unless you buy an aftermarket set that is sold by either Vogel manufacturing or Midwest supercub. As far parts used from Mopar you can use the 8 1/4" carrier, you can shorten a set of axles for this if you want but you will end up using a smaller bearing size with the Mopar axles or you could buy a set from Midwest Supercub that will utilize a larger bearing. Less friction-stronger axle. You will have to bore out the axle housings to accommodate the different bearing for the axles. You can buy a set of bearing cups from Vogel or Midwest. You will not use a Mopar ring and pinion. The tranny gears you can buy from a half dozen different places. A hardened top shaft is also available from Vogel or Midwest SC. Also changing out the front bearing holder for the pinion shaft would be a wise idea. Are you wanting to use 2, 3 or 4 pulling gears? You will have to decide this before you buy the appropriate package when you order your gears. If going with a 4 pulling gear set up, you will also have to come up with a different set of shifting forks. Again, Vogel or Midwest SC sell them. I made my own but most people don't want to mess with that. What motor are you putting in this tractor? Which class? If you are going to pull in a class that requires a full on pulling transaxle then you will also have to make clutch changes. Depending on which class you are pulling will determine which clutch to use. If you are using a stock stroke motor then you can use either Vogel or Midwest SC. If you are pulling a well built 50ci motor then I would recommend using the Vogel clutch only, I have smoked the 3 and 4 puck MSC clutch. I may give the 5 puck a try if I don't have the Money for the Vogel clutch. As far as using the old Cub Cadet 70 there is absolutely nothing wrong with using that tractor. My first tractor was a Cub Cadet 100; the only difference is the motor between the 70 and 100.
If you want to put the 12hp. motor in that frame the only thing you will have to come up with is the correct oil pan for the 3.25 stroke Kohler motor that fits the Cub Cadet Frame. Vogel and Midwest SC sell them. After that the motor will drop right in the frame and bolt up.
Lot of information here, but what does it all mean...?

Is there a place for a "basics" tutorial on setting one up ? (talking about cub axle 70-100 series)

What do they all need and why (or "when" what hp or class level do you need to do "X") ?

What about "choosing" 2-3 or 4 pulling gears...? How many do you need, do you shift on the fly, or is it just for different track conditions...?
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Randy Stys
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« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2010, 04:43:27 PM »

Holy cow Randy. I will start typing

On all my cubs I have built I have done the following with great results and no broken parts. My cubs have been in the 25-30hp range. With a 26 inch tire.
1)Completely dissasemble the tranaxle. Keep the main shaft gears and spacers in order along with the counter shaft gears and spacers.
clean it out with the power washer.
2)reinstall the diff, and axle housings with axles.
with the diff clean of all oil use the trusty arc welder and weld the diff gears at all 8 meeting places. This makes it a posi. If you don't do this you will blow the diff up. This is my personal thing to do. Some guys don't like welded carriers. I won't run one without it. You can buy a after market one for big money but unless your making 50hp you don't need it.
3)with the diff out of the way you can choose your gears, a three speed setup will give you 3 pulling gears in a close ratio. 4 speed setup will give you 4 and no reverse. I have always just ran a 2 gear setup. It leaves 1st and rev stock and gives you 2nd and 3rd for pulling. Close ratio. At my tracks pulling at the 800lb-1000lb range I have ran 23-25 gears sets and won my points championship with my cub. A 2 gear setup is the least amount of money.
4) you can run a stock top shaft and pinion bearing support. I have never broke any parts in the transaxles with that setup. 2 gear setup and a welded diff, everything else stock.
5)when you get into the a real hard bitting track that sucks up hp and you have to run a lower gear set thats when you should think about a good topshaft and pinion bearing support.
6)Our open v-twin has ate up a stock welded diff, a top shaft and a stock 12 tooth pinion gear. It make 50hp, 7000rpm with a set of VM07's and we pull on very loose tracks with a 25-26 tooth gear at 1050lbs.
7) BRian miller web sight has a ton of trans axle photos for assembly as well. He also goes over alot that I just typed.
Cool on the clutch setup. I have ran a set of aftermarket pressure plates and a replacement kevlar disk from Vogel with a 800lb spring. This was behind my open rpm opposed twin and I never had a problem with it. I could slip it out of the hole and it would hold great at the end of the track. This is a cheap alternative to a 3 puck setup. If you buy a complete unit Midwest has a good deal on the 3 puck setups. It will take most anything a S/A 16 will dish out. On our open v-twin we have a 4 puck setup from super cub. Just remember on the clutch you want to be able to slip it 25-30 feet taking off to keep the engine rpm up in the power band.
9)when pulling you pick one gear and it stays there until pull is over. That is why gear choice is crucial. After you pull a little and get some time in you will be able to pick a gear set for what ever your building and have good luck with it.
10)Stock class stuff can get away with stock clutch parts and a good spring with a kevlar disk. Resurface the pressure plates, 4140 steel drive shaft and your good to go.
11)I make my own forks as well. You use the stock stuff in 2 and 3 gear setups. You just have to modify them a little depending on the gear size you choose. I use as much stock stuff as I can because if it aint broke it doesn't need fixed.
12) If you have questions and your looking at things to by feel free to im me or call Randy. I will help in any way you need. It does'nt bother me so don't be afraid to ask.
13)if your under 30hp or say running a S/A engine your build is cheaper. If your in the vtwin class or the 48-50.5 classes thats when you want some good drive line parts because if not you will break the stock stuff.

Dennis
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Dennis Bazzett
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« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2010, 04:49:11 PM »

Tires are just your choice. I don't think the tri ribs are a must have. You will learn quick to steer with your backside when shifting it side to side on the seat. I think the tri rib thing is because everyone else has them. I like to run a wheelbarrow tire in either 6 or 8 inch. Most cubs are 3/4 inch spindle. You can get stock cub narrow rims that are 8x4 or use the aftermarket hubs and aluminum rims. Tri rbs do help a little with a welded diff for moving the tractor around before or after the pull. They tend to not like turning with 1000lbs and a welded diff.
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Dennis Bazzett
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« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2010, 04:52:43 PM »

no the key to tractor pulling is all body language and weighting the tractor correctly... front tire treads have nothing to do with it... now there is something to chassis setup too but most of it is the weights and how you move deturmines steering the tractor down the track
one more thing... dont weld the diff... if you would like to be able to drive the tractor and make it work... really i promise you you will not gain anything by welding the rearend... and to be honest its dangerous...
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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2010, 04:57:27 PM »

I have ran welded diffs for ten years. I have alot of friends that run welded diffs. My dads tractor runs a open rpm 38cid kohler command. 50hp never a problem. I don't think its dangerous, just an opinion to run one. A open diff will pop real quick if its not upgraded. I would rather weld a stock one and put the money elsewhere in the tractor. Don't tell him what not to do or to do. Just give him your opinion on what works for you and let him make the decision.
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Dennis Bazzett
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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2010, 05:04:58 PM »

flatheadpuller what are you talking about? in every one of our tractors we have used nothing but an open cub diff... and have never broken one... if you have your doin something very wrong... if you look in the nqs series you will find about 6 of our tractors out there... and they were all at one time top contenders when we built them and drove them... and btw all our tractors have been 50.5 pro/superstock with all the goodies... spent ten of the last years we pulled in the top 5 of nqs points... all that was done to our trans were gears, top shaft, ring&pinion, shift forks and axles and ring and pinion carriers and bearings ... yea we broke some things but never anything major other than ring and pinions... WELDED DIFFERENTALS ARE DANGEROUS!!!! saw it happen 4 times at the columbus winternationals this year.. lady got thrown 10 feet off the tractor...
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« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2010, 05:23:05 PM »

I just said I have never had a problem. If the pocket book doesn't allow a open heavy duty carrier setup then I weld it. I have broke open fine spline carriers. I have never ran the dart setup. Didn't see it worth it to me because I had good luck welding the diffs. I don't pull NQS either. I run the local level. If you read the above post over I said this is my personal thing to do. Randy doesn't have to weld the diff. Its his choice. Its a cheap, easy thing to do to the diff so you don't break a stock coarse spline diff setup. He asked for some help I gave him what works for me now and in the past ten+ years I have been pulling. I don't pull for second place I am very competitive. If it works for me it might work for some one else. Don't take things to the heart. These are just my opinions on what works for me and the other tractors I have built or helped build.
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Dennis Bazzett
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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2010, 05:29:52 PM »

I'm sure there is more than one way to skin a cat and as many opinions on pulling setup as there is in circle racing...

Been reading Brian Millers site and seeing some of my questions answered there and new questions developing as we go...

I'm thinking of this as a "build in progress" and as the stakes and the hp goes up "different" things wil break compared to the lower classes...and that's fine, what I'm hoping to do is glean a little experiance here and start with the "known" breakable parts and work my way up step by step from there...
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Randy Stys
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« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2010, 01:19:40 AM »

Front tires are more of a personal preference of what you want to run, I personally like to set the front end down a little but again the fronts are more a personal preference.
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Bruce Litton
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« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2010, 01:30:06 AM »

I posted that info at one time to cover everything. As far as welded carriers I agree that is dangerous. I too know of someone who was thrown from his tractor as it rolled sideways. I have learned over the years if you half way do something when dealing with real power you will be doing some major in season repairs . Build it as cheaply as possible, then when it breaks let me know what broke and i will tell you how to fix it.
As far as setting up the 70-100 frames, the few things that most pullers do with them are is to stretch the wheelbase to the rule limit, to re enforce the area under the engine. That model is a good one to build and is fairly easy to keep light.
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Bruce Litton
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« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2010, 06:51:45 AM »

I just noticed the frame streching allowances in the rules, I'm liking that I have something to play with for that raked forward look.
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Randy Stys
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« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2010, 07:09:11 AM »

I'm favoring the raked forward small tires in front streched look...will have to see what kinda parts show up...

On Rear Tires...Tube or not ..? and ply rating stiff 8 ply or a little give with 4 ply...?

Steel wheels or hold out for aluminum ?

I'm thinking for a rookie season, I could get away with most any used tire that rolls and has lugs to set up ride height and get my feet wet at the pulls... I'll probably have my hands full sorting the chassis and weight setup out before I notice the tires are holding me back... I hate to drop $700 on top of the line tires when the machine hasn't been to the line yet...

Forgive my rookie questions and comments....I appreciate the help your giving...as much as I know lawnmowers, this is a whole new game, and I feel like one of the newbies, without a clue, asking how to change pulleys to go faster...
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Randy Stys
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