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Mower Building / Setup Help => Garden Tractor Pulling => Topic started by: Squidd on November 07, 2009, 02:42:03 PM

Title: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 07, 2009, 02:42:03 PM
This is going to be my "Build" thread for 16 hp S/A Tractor...
I started several threads prior to this, so I merged them all here to keep info together...The first couple pages may be a bit "jumpy" and hard to follow, but the remaining should stay in order...Official build began 3/20/10 when I pulled the donor tractor apart for sand blasting (about page 6)...

Due to some health concerns, I am no longer racing mowers on the roundy round (although I plan on campaigning Sami on the AP for the coming season)

I still do like to tinker and been looking into pulling as an option to stay involved with the little tractors.

Been looking around for a good starting platform, and ran across this older Cub 126

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_DSC00001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=DSC00001.jpg)

Has a 12 hp Kohler and direct drive clutch (not belt or hydro)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_DSC00002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=DSC00002.jpg)

Looks like a three speed trans

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_DSC00003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=DSC00003.jpg)

And a solid looking rear end with brakes on each axle...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_DSC00004.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=DSC00004.jpg)


Is this a decent unit, whats it worth ? Guys is asking $500 which is a bit more than I have been paying for a starting "racing" chassis,but I realize this is a bit more substantial tractor.

Let me know thoughts , weaknesses I should be on look out for, or any other concerns I should have before dropping cash on this unit

If I do get into this, I will be looking into pulling in the Wisconsin/Mn, Midwest area

Any links to clubs would be appreciated

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it
Post by: FlatheadPuller on November 07, 2009, 04:44:34 PM
Randy, you could'nt start with anything better. That is what my Red Rocker I built started life as. Keep the kohler on it. You can buy anything for it all done just bolt it together. Depending on the class you build for the budget is small to large. To set it up for pulling you will need to shed the starter generator and install the ring gear flywheel, bearing plate and engine shroud. The generator is a HP robbing machine. Randy you can give me a call if you wish and I can tell you anything you want to know. You will have to upgrade the clutch, Do a 2-3 gear swap in the trans, make 2nd and 3rd more desireable for pulling. There are alot of things to do on a cub, but you can get something belt drive for less money if your just starting. But I would get the cub. The rear end in it is called an external brake rear end. The carriers are week but you can weld the diff and cure the problem and it will hold up depending on what you build for a power plant.
Here is an excellent club to get involved in.

http://www.wgtpinc.org/
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it
Post by: Squidd on November 07, 2009, 06:07:32 PM
Thanks Dennis, I got your number and will probably give you a call, just not sure what questions to ask yet..

Been looking thru the pulling section here, the WGYP site as well as Gopher State site...

Probably start in the stock/altered class and work my way up as I get more exposure.

Lots to look at...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it
Post by: Big daddy on November 09, 2009, 05:36:47 AM
That is not a bad price for the tractor in its shape and what is there. I have seen many "82" series go for around $300 but not everything is there when you buy it. That frame is what a lot of pullers in NQS are using, the narrow frame with the high tunnel. Depending on what you are wanting to do with this tractor and of course what money you are wanting to spend will determine what mods, you can do. If it were me I would leave the starter off of it and use a start cart, less weight fewer hassels with the electrical system, and you will not have to do any cutting on the frame to make everything fit.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it
Post by: Mowermatt on November 10, 2009, 04:29:55 PM
Check this guys web site out. http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/index.htm

And of course http://www.midwestsupercub.net/default.asp

Cubs are just about the best platform to build from. I pulled an old "original" cub for years and was undefeated one season in the 750 lb class. We also pulled a few Panzers and a newer style Cub 782. My favorite by far was the Rotax powered Modified we pulled. That was fun!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it
Post by: outlawmower on November 21, 2009, 05:02:20 PM
Squidd, If you need any help or have any questions feel free to shoot me a PM. Be glad to help anytime.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it
Post by: Squidd on November 21, 2009, 05:13:24 PM
Appreciate it guys...

I let this Cub go, after looking on here and some of the pulling sites ...then I checked e-bay ....and then the puller classified, I thing I may just have to follow the advise I give all the new circle racers...

I need to go to an event (a couple) in my area see what the competition is running in the class I might want to try... and then look around in the pits cause there is probably a machine or two out there with a for sale sign on it.

But I will definitely be hanging around this section a bit more...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it
Post by: FlatheadPuller on November 22, 2009, 01:19:59 PM
Keep in mind Randy when starting out. If you find a old wheel horse or deere both are belt drive you can't go wrong if you pick them up cheap. I paid $50 for my boys wheel horse and it was complete. My deere was a little more at $200 but hey its a deere. Also if your looking at starting in the lower Hp classes geared more toward stock stuff any belt drive with a 5 bolt wheel and a 4 speed cast iron peerless with a horizontal shaft engine would give you a good base to build on. Where I pull our stock class is 4000rpm on the governor and very fun along with very competitive. I find alot of them at the local auto salvage yard and the local metal recycling plant.
Title: Tire sizes
Post by: Squidd on January 14, 2010, 10:44:08 AM
Is there a big difference or "rule of thumb" on picking a tire size..?

For Example 23"x 10.5 x 12 is good to 16hp altered stock...?? you can't use the leverage of the 26"s unless you have 18 hp or more open class...?? all depends on gearing so get what's available...?

I'm starting to collect parts, so what part comes first (motor, frame, axle,) that determines what comes next, or what goes with what...(tires, gearing, class)??



Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Caudy155 on January 14, 2010, 11:02:56 AM
i dont know your rules for your stock alt. class but all the stock alt. guys in our club are running 26x12x12 cepeks... what kind of tractor are you building?
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Squidd on January 14, 2010, 11:13:56 AM
Well, Like I say, I'm still in the parts collecting process, but Dennis and Bruce swayed me toward an older Cub shaft drive as the choice for frame and axle, haven't picked a motor but leaning toward Kohler Single cyl 12-16 hp, but if my tractor comes with a motor that will obviously influance my decision.

You say everyone runs the 26"s but "why"...?? It would seem a taller tire with larger contact patch would be the way to go, but is there an advantage to the smaller tires ie: spin up or leverage..?

I don't know, that's why I'm asking, I don't like to buy stuff "just cause everyone else did"... give me a reason...
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 14, 2010, 11:21:21 AM
Randy if your building a S\A tractor your going to want a 26-12-12. It will flat out pull a 23 inch tire. No questions asked. A altered tractor will have more gear, faster speed, more momentum down the track and you just can't get it with a 23inch tire. If you can run a pulling tire where your going to pull a Vogel brand tire is the way to go. They are alot less money and are a heck of a tire. We use VM07's  and VM08's. IF you your building a stock class tractor then get a set of Vogels TT's. They have the same comound as the VM's just in a 23-10.50-12. If you run an altered tractor with 23's in a 26 tire class you will get beat because of it. But make sure the tire is legal for the club. Most every club that runs an altered class runs a 26-12-12 tire rule.

Dennis
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: philr85 on January 14, 2010, 11:35:36 AM
building a big oll puller huh i hope you  give us some build pics squid
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Squidd on January 14, 2010, 11:42:47 AM
Makes sense on the 26"s, for leverage and spin up, and they are allowed, (I'm looking at Wisconsin GT Pullers INC and Gopher State GT Pullers rules for now) but not the Vogels..

I'm probably looking used, is the Goodyear AG bar a desireable "stock" brand....?


building a big oll puller huh i hope you  give us some build pics squid
That I will, already starting to get the itch to fire something up...:lol:
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 14, 2010, 12:50:01 PM
Try and find a firestone 23* flotation in the 26-12-12 or a carlise super lug. You want some thing with a wide thick bar so it won't fold back on you. Also stay away from tires that have bars close together in spacing. I think titan true powers are decent as well. big bar cepeks are good as well. I personally run only carlise super lugs.
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Big daddy on January 14, 2010, 01:18:06 PM
I think Nichols is the only one who had any of the Firestones of any stock left. They are no longer made. First thing I would do is decide which class you want to shoot for then you can plan and scheme your way to get there. Anymore there are several purpose built tires for garden tractor pulling to choose from. The main consideration is where are you going to pull and what kind of tracks. (i.e. indoors 150ft tracks or outdoors 300ft. tracks), as well as track type loose,power,hard. For "general" purpose I choose Cepeks, but there are some tracks where Vogel's work better. I do like Chuck's tires in that they are less expensive. There are a lot of parts for sale now on GT pulling's classified section. The rational is correct for using the 26's instead of the 23's-totally agree there!!

http://www.gtpulling.com/classifieds/index.php
I keep my on things there waiting for something I need.
Good Luck!!
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Caudy155 on January 14, 2010, 04:38:15 PM
well im glad you went for the cub... my dad and i used to run central ohio tire and chassis we built tractors and dad sharpened tires... we have since retired for the tractor pulling game... but i just went to the columbus winter nationals over last weekend and every stock alt. tractor there was running either cepeks, lawn tecs, or vogels... and as far a motor shoot for the 16 if your rules allow... midwest supercub can set you up with all the parts you could ever dream of... and make sure you find yourself a good pulling clutch the stock one wont hold up real long... but like i said search for midwest super cub and check out their site and give them a call they are a bunch of good people and wont steer you in the wrong direction...
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Squidd on January 15, 2010, 03:39:47 PM
What's the deal on the front tires...?

I see some machines with tiny 3.5x5x8 fronts and others with 4x10 or 4x12 fronts....and not many wide fronts..is there a prefered front tire and pattern ?

How important are the front tires and steering action when going relatively straight for a short distance..? (I know, safe and secure, but are they a critical factor in the pull stratigy? )
Title: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: Squidd on January 15, 2010, 03:52:19 PM
You will not necessarily change the ring and pinion out unless you buy an aftermarket set that is sold by either Vogel manufacturing or Midwest supercub. As far parts used from Mopar you can use the 8 1/4" carrier, you can shorten a set of axles for this if you want but you will end up using a smaller bearing size with the Mopar axles or you could buy a set from Midwest Supercub that will utilize a larger bearing. Less friction-stronger axle. You will have to bore out the axle housings to accommodate the different bearing for the axles. You can buy a set of bearing cups from Vogel or Midwest. You will not use a Mopar ring and pinion. The tranny gears you can buy from a half dozen different places. A hardened top shaft is also available from Vogel or Midwest SC. Also changing out the front bearing holder for the pinion shaft would be a wise idea. Are you wanting to use 2, 3 or 4 pulling gears? You will have to decide this before you buy the appropriate package when you order your gears. If going with a 4 pulling gear set up, you will also have to come up with a different set of shifting forks. Again, Vogel or Midwest SC sell them. I made my own but most people don't want to mess with that. What motor are you putting in this tractor? Which class? If you are going to pull in a class that requires a full on pulling transaxle then you will also have to make clutch changes. Depending on which class you are pulling will determine which clutch to use. If you are using a stock stroke motor then you can use either Vogel or Midwest SC. If you are pulling a well built 50ci motor then I would recommend using the Vogel clutch only, I have smoked the 3 and 4 puck MSC clutch. I may give the 5 puck a try if I don't have the Money for the Vogel clutch. As far as using the old Cub Cadet 70 there is absolutely nothing wrong with using that tractor. My first tractor was a Cub Cadet 100; the only difference is the motor between the 70 and 100.
If you want to put the 12hp. motor in that frame the only thing you will have to come up with is the correct oil pan for the 3.25 stroke Kohler motor that fits the Cub Cadet Frame. Vogel and Midwest SC sell them. After that the motor will drop right in the frame and bolt up.
Lot of information here, but what does it all mean...?

Is there a place for a "basics" tutorial on setting one up ? (talking about cub axle 70-100 series)

What do they all need and why (or "when" what hp or class level do you need to do "X") ?

What about "choosing" 2-3 or 4 pulling gears...? How many do you need, do you shift on the fly, or is it just for different track conditions...?
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 15, 2010, 04:43:27 PM
Holy cow Randy. I will start typing

On all my cubs I have built I have done the following with great results and no broken parts. My cubs have been in the 25-30hp range. With a 26 inch tire.
1)Completely dissasemble the tranaxle. Keep the main shaft gears and spacers in order along with the counter shaft gears and spacers.
clean it out with the power washer.
2)reinstall the diff, and axle housings with axles.
with the diff clean of all oil use the trusty arc welder and weld the diff gears at all 8 meeting places. This makes it a posi. If you don't do this you will blow the diff up. This is my personal thing to do. Some guys don't like welded carriers. I won't run one without it. You can buy a after market one for big money but unless your making 50hp you don't need it.
3)with the diff out of the way you can choose your gears, a three speed setup will give you 3 pulling gears in a close ratio. 4 speed setup will give you 4 and no reverse. I have always just ran a 2 gear setup. It leaves 1st and rev stock and gives you 2nd and 3rd for pulling. Close ratio. At my tracks pulling at the 800lb-1000lb range I have ran 23-25 gears sets and won my points championship with my cub. A 2 gear setup is the least amount of money.
4) you can run a stock top shaft and pinion bearing support. I have never broke any parts in the transaxles with that setup. 2 gear setup and a welded diff, everything else stock.
5)when you get into the a real hard bitting track that sucks up hp and you have to run a lower gear set thats when you should think about a good topshaft and pinion bearing support.
6)Our open v-twin has ate up a stock welded diff, a top shaft and a stock 12 tooth pinion gear. It make 50hp, 7000rpm with a set of VM07's and we pull on very loose tracks with a 25-26 tooth gear at 1050lbs.
7) BRian miller web sight has a ton of trans axle photos for assembly as well. He also goes over alot that I just typed.
8) on the clutch setup. I have ran a set of aftermarket pressure plates and a replacement kevlar disk from Vogel with a 800lb spring. This was behind my open rpm opposed twin and I never had a problem with it. I could slip it out of the hole and it would hold great at the end of the track. This is a cheap alternative to a 3 puck setup. If you buy a complete unit Midwest has a good deal on the 3 puck setups. It will take most anything a S/A 16 will dish out. On our open v-twin we have a 4 puck setup from super cub. Just remember on the clutch you want to be able to slip it 25-30 feet taking off to keep the engine rpm up in the power band.
9)when pulling you pick one gear and it stays there until pull is over. That is why gear choice is crucial. After you pull a little and get some time in you will be able to pick a gear set for what ever your building and have good luck with it.
10)Stock class stuff can get away with stock clutch parts and a good spring with a kevlar disk. Resurface the pressure plates, 4140 steel drive shaft and your good to go.
11)I make my own forks as well. You use the stock stuff in 2 and 3 gear setups. You just have to modify them a little depending on the gear size you choose. I use as much stock stuff as I can because if it aint broke it doesn't need fixed.
12) If you have questions and your looking at things to by feel free to im me or call Randy. I will help in any way you need. It does'nt bother me so don't be afraid to ask.
13)if your under 30hp or say running a S/A engine your build is cheaper. If your in the vtwin class or the 48-50.5 classes thats when you want some good drive line parts because if not you will break the stock stuff.

Dennis
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 15, 2010, 04:49:11 PM
Tires are just your choice. I don't think the tri ribs are a must have. You will learn quick to steer with your backside when shifting it side to side on the seat. I think the tri rib thing is because everyone else has them. I like to run a wheelbarrow tire in either 6 or 8 inch. Most cubs are 3/4 inch spindle. You can get stock cub narrow rims that are 8x4 or use the aftermarket hubs and aluminum rims. Tri rbs do help a little with a welded diff for moving the tractor around before or after the pull. They tend to not like turning with 1000lbs and a welded diff.
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Caudy155 on January 15, 2010, 04:52:43 PM
no the key to tractor pulling is all body language and weighting the tractor correctly... front tire treads have nothing to do with it... now there is something to chassis setup too but most of it is the weights and how you move deturmines steering the tractor down the track
one more thing... dont weld the diff... if you would like to be able to drive the tractor and make it work... really i promise you you will not gain anything by welding the rearend... and to be honest its dangerous...
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 15, 2010, 04:57:27 PM
I have ran welded diffs for ten years. I have alot of friends that run welded diffs. My dads tractor runs a open rpm 38cid kohler command. 50hp never a problem. I don't think its dangerous, just an opinion to run one. A open diff will pop real quick if its not upgraded. I would rather weld a stock one and put the money elsewhere in the tractor. Don't tell him what not to do or to do. Just give him your opinion on what works for you and let him make the decision.
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: Caudy155 on January 15, 2010, 05:04:58 PM
flatheadpuller what are you talking about? in every one of our tractors we have used nothing but an open cub diff... and have never broken one... if you have your doin something very wrong... if you look in the nqs series you will find about 6 of our tractors out there... and they were all at one time top contenders when we built them and drove them... and btw all our tractors have been 50.5 pro/superstock with all the goodies... spent ten of the last years we pulled in the top 5 of nqs points... all that was done to our trans were gears, top shaft, ring&pinion, shift forks and axles and ring and pinion carriers and bearings ... yea we broke some things but never anything major other than ring and pinions... WELDED DIFFERENTALS ARE DANGEROUS!!!! saw it happen 4 times at the columbus winternationals this year.. lady got thrown 10 feet off the tractor...
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 15, 2010, 05:23:05 PM
I just said I have never had a problem. If the pocket book doesn't allow a open heavy duty carrier setup then I weld it. I have broke open fine spline carriers. I have never ran the dart setup. Didn't see it worth it to me because I had good luck welding the diffs. I don't pull NQS either. I run the local level. If you read the above post over I said this is my personal thing to do. Randy doesn't have to weld the diff. Its his choice. Its a cheap, easy thing to do to the diff so you don't break a stock coarse spline diff setup. He asked for some help I gave him what works for me now and in the past ten+ years I have been pulling. I don't pull for second place I am very competitive. If it works for me it might work for some one else. Don't take things to the heart. These are just my opinions on what works for me and the other tractors I have built or helped build.
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: Squidd on January 15, 2010, 05:29:52 PM
I'm sure there is more than one way to skin a cat and as many opinions on pulling setup as there is in circle racing...

Been reading Brian Millers site and seeing some of my questions answered there and new questions developing as we go...

I'm thinking of this as a "build in progress" and as the stakes and the hp goes up "different" things wil break compared to the lower classes...and that's fine, what I'm hoping to do is glean a little experiance here and start with the "known" breakable parts and work my way up step by step from there...
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Big daddy on January 17, 2010, 01:19:40 AM
Front tires are more of a personal preference of what you want to run, I personally like to set the front end down a little but again the fronts are more a personal preference.
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: Big daddy on January 17, 2010, 01:30:06 AM
I posted that info at one time to cover everything. As far as welded carriers I agree that is dangerous. I too know of someone who was thrown from his tractor as it rolled sideways. I have learned over the years if you half way do something when dealing with real power you will be doing some major in season repairs . Build it as cheaply as possible, then when it breaks let me know what broke and i will tell you how to fix it.
As far as setting up the 70-100 frames, the few things that most pullers do with them are is to stretch the wheelbase to the rule limit, to re enforce the area under the engine. That model is a good one to build and is fairly easy to keep light.
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: Squidd on January 17, 2010, 06:51:45 AM
I just noticed the frame streching allowances in the rules, I'm liking that I have something to play with for that raked forward look.
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Squidd on January 17, 2010, 07:09:11 AM
I'm favoring the raked forward small tires in front streched look...will have to see what kinda parts show up...

On Rear Tires...Tube or not ..? and ply rating stiff 8 ply or a little give with 4 ply...?

Steel wheels or hold out for aluminum ?

I'm thinking for a rookie season, I could get away with most any used tire that rolls and has lugs to set up ride height and get my feet wet at the pulls... I'll probably have my hands full sorting the chassis and weight setup out before I notice the tires are holding me back... I hate to drop $700 on top of the line tires when the machine hasn't been to the line yet...

Forgive my rookie questions and comments....I appreciate the help your giving...as much as I know lawnmowers, this is a whole new game, and I feel like one of the newbies, without a clue, asking how to change pulleys to go faster...
Title: Might have something here...
Post by: Squidd on January 17, 2010, 05:50:09 PM
Picked up a project and a half today on e-bay

Cub Cadet 100 with 10 hp koehler, good steering, good rear end

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Cub100.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Cub100.jpg)

and a "parts" basket case cub 70 mostly for rear end, frame, hood and grill...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Cub70.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Cub70.jpg)

Don't want to start with anything too clean and cared for, if I'm just gonna start tearing it up. :P

Still gotta run couple hours down state to pick it up...probably later in the week...
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 17, 2010, 08:49:30 PM
I saw those on ebay Squidd. Thats a good start. extra parts. Did you get them for a good price?
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: Squidd on January 17, 2010, 09:25:49 PM
I hope so, $100...

Figured it be nice to get a second matching rear end in the deal...
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: jerb on January 17, 2010, 09:29:07 PM
be looking forward to a build thread Squidd.....
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: Squidd on January 18, 2010, 04:30:49 AM
Yep, and once I get a few more parts together and I'll start one..

Next I need a set of full size pulling tires/rims (26x 12-12) to start setting up chassis ride height and then a decent 14-16hp horizontal koheler to rebuild and power this puppy...(anyone have any suggestions/donations, I'm looking)...

The goal is to be eligible to run in at least two pulling associations in my area , Wisconsin GT Pullers and Gopher State GT Pullers... The class I  selected is "Stock altered" or "Pro Lite" 16 hp and under single cylinder....

I have about 20 pages of build rules from the two groups and should be able build a machine to fit competitively in either class designation...I do need to contact these goups direct to find out where and when they'll be pulling, and get some driver direct contact going, It's a whole new project/hobby/sport I'm getting into and looking forward to doing it right...
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: Big daddy on January 18, 2010, 05:36:53 AM
If your wheel base is limited to 54 or 56" inches then you won't have to cut and stretch the frame. You can move the front and rear axles to get that length. Cutting the frame and re-welding it can be touchy to say the least. To square away on the welding issue with the carriers. I have seen individuals who have welded up the open space on the carrier for strength. That is ok to a certain hp/tourqe range. But welding the spider gears is dangerous. If you are having an issue with one tire spinning all the time then shim up the spider gears. This can still allow the spider gears to function but will not let one wheel spin freely all the time.
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: Squidd on January 18, 2010, 06:50:32 AM
If your wheel base is limited to 54 or 56" inches then you won't have to cut and stretch the frame. You can move the front and rear axles to get that length.

It was 56" in one club, and 60" in the other I'll probably stay with the 56" to be legal in both....
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: Wheelhorseracer on January 18, 2010, 08:31:26 AM
That a great machine.. good find..

I found my Wheelhorse in the same condition. Now it's a great workhorse around the yard.
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: Big daddy on January 18, 2010, 11:30:17 AM
Good idea, I am not sure if the NQS S/A is 54" or 56", but the pro/super stock is 56". That will allow you to pull about anywhere. Looks like you have a good frame to start with. Good luck!!
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: Caudy155 on January 19, 2010, 10:21:29 AM
bruce do you pull in nqs? just curious
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: Big daddy on January 19, 2010, 11:26:47 AM
I have a few times when close. Just can't travel much in winter. Too much hunting and other kid functions going on.
Didn't get to pull at all last year. Over extended myself on this new fuel s/u, so I sat at home and piddled a lot!!
Title: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Squidd on February 04, 2010, 11:51:53 AM
Got a K241 with my tractor purchase, nothing special (cept I believe it has the LP head on it)  :omg:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_K241.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=K241.jpg)

But no provision for electric starter/flywheel...

I see guys running the 10 and 12 hp blocks, but is this something I should persue...? Or should I buy parts and pieces for a 16 hp block...(thinking bigger is better) or is there a more desireable block to start with..?

I'm not particular, so what is the most "Bang for the buck" or fun for the money...?
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: chuckm on February 04, 2010, 12:47:19 PM
Buy a k341 block for pulling
but then that depends on what class of tractor your going to run.
chuckm
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Squidd on February 04, 2010, 01:01:23 PM
Yes, I should have mentioned class, looking at Stock Altered/ Pro Lite, 16 hp and under single cylinder class with Wisconsin or Gopher State GT Pullers...
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Big daddy on February 04, 2010, 01:08:45 PM
I agree with Chuck. 16hp. K series block. I would not throw away that 10hp. block with the LP head if that is what it is. That is something that is not seen everyday if you know what I mean. If that motor came out of an older model Cub tractor then the electric start was done via a pulley on the pto side of the crank. Later models of Cubs had the larger ring gear type starter. Most of the pullers that I know of who use the 10 and 12 hp. blocks are in either a 30 cu. inch class or an altered/limited 12 hp. class.
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: chuckm on February 04, 2010, 01:50:30 PM
Ya, I agree daddy it had a generator starter set up that did both charge your bat. and start your engine.
chuckm
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 04, 2010, 02:17:42 PM
I would build the k-341 Randy. But if so desired a 12,14,16 hp kohler all the parts interchange except the piston and head. To make it easy on your self though use a starter on the engine. You can build it for a starter cart but i personally think they are a pain. 16hp kohler with a long rod, short piston, a good .340 grind S/A cam. Vogel has some really good grinds. 25lb ring gear flywheel with a recast head from vogel you will have a good running machine. You can use a good billet head from Vogel if the rules allow it.
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Squidd on February 04, 2010, 04:27:33 PM
I'll post the rules here (for the class I'm aiming for) for the Wisconsin GT Pullers and The Gopher State GT Pullers...Any of you guys know those clubs...?

 Stock Altered Gopher State GT Pullers: http://www.gsgtp.com/GSGTP%20Rulebook.htm#4

Light Pro Mod- Wisconsin GT Pullers: http://www.wgtpinc.org/rules.htm

Looks like I'll persue a buildable K341 16 hp ...

Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 04, 2010, 05:14:59 PM
With both those rule lists you could build an NQS stock altered tractor and be legal in both classes. The only difference I see that will be a HP advantage/disadvantage is the carb rule in the light pro mod rules of a 1.2 versus the gopherstate rules of a 1.0 carb. There is quite a difference. Go for a good running nqs 16hp and pull in both classes with a 1.0 carb.
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Big daddy on February 04, 2010, 05:54:37 PM
I agree about the carb issue. If you stay with the 1.0 carb they you can run both those classes and NQS S/A and be legal. Spending the money for the 1.2 boat carb for one class would be hard to justify.
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Squidd on February 05, 2010, 07:38:38 AM
Cool, that is kind of the plan, to build a machine that will "competitively" fit in several organizations with minimal or no changes between runs. That should give me the most opportunity to pull and best bang for the buck.
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Big daddy on February 05, 2010, 11:25:50 AM
Are you going to put a steel crank in your motor?
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 05, 2010, 11:53:06 AM
A steel crank in an altered is a very wise insurance policy. At least one of Vogels new forged cranks. There easier on the pocket book. Altereds get beat hard out of the hole and down the track. Hold it wide open until it won't rev anymore and start letting the clutch out. 25-30lbs of flywheel. Its rough on a cast crank.
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Squidd on February 05, 2010, 01:01:00 PM
That's kind of what I'm heading towards..

Seems no one wants to ship a complete motor, but I can buy bare and short blocks that are shipable...

Gonna up grade crank, rod and cam, and probably piston, so I 'm thinking I might as well start with a bare block and build from there..?

Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 05, 2010, 02:27:47 PM
Just remember to shop around Randy. You cannot go wrong with anything Chuck Vogel sells. I run his cams as do ALOT of other people. Personally his prices are better then most as well. He is a good guy to talk to as well. Another place I have delt with alot is Skip at Mid-Atlantic Performance. He has real good prices as well.

In our local stuff I have never seen a stock block break so I can't help in that department on when it needs to be upgraded. Bruce would have a better idea on what a stock block can take. I have seen cranks break though. A S/A recast block will put a serious dent in the wallet.
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Big daddy on February 05, 2010, 03:20:16 PM
You can use a Kohler block and it will handle a S/A class just fine. I would still use a block tie down just to be sure. I read the rules for the NQS S/A a few years back and when Julian came out with his S/A block the rules more or less said one cannot have any visible welding on the outside around the port, but low and behold the Julian S/A block is beefed up in those areas. I didn't care too much for that rule/part arrangement. Kohler K series blocks to port them correctly and to make them live you will have to weld/build up at least the top part of the flange between the port face and the head/deck area. If you don't sooner or later it will break or crack.
As far as cams go I agree about using Chuck Vogel's cams. They always seem to have a better torque band for the classes that need them. Anything with a stock stroke needs as much torque as you can throw at it.
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: coolcooper8 on February 06, 2010, 06:52:28 PM
Shouldent need electric start on a pulling tractor anyways, loose a bit of RPMs just turnin the belt and starter(dont need to run lights or anyting else on a pulling tractor). Just get a rope start pully and pull start it. If its like my Briggs, it should only take 4 pulls at the most to start and thats after sittin in the grage this whole winter. Just my $0.2\

Patrick Shimer
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Big daddy on February 06, 2010, 10:32:46 PM
If you cam this motor properly you will be using a steel cam that probably wont have a compression release, without that you wont pull start one of these engines. I agree electric start is added weight you dont need. We put a pulley on the pto end and use a start cart. I know it can be un handy as heck but with my fat rear in the seat I cant afford the weight.
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: Squidd on February 07, 2010, 08:29:36 AM
I'lll have to read thru the rules again, I thought I read they had to have a "self contained" starting sysytem....?

Maybe that was just in stock class.. I'll have to dig a little more..
Title: Re: What motor should I build..?
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 07, 2010, 05:12:47 PM
Randy I have a fellow puller who has a Vogel starter bracket and toyota starter. They are light wieght gear reducted starters. It will crank anything you can build. I can give you his number If you would like. He also has some 1.0 carbs. He has an add on GT pulling classifieds. His name is Don.
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: Squidd on February 14, 2010, 09:28:56 AM
I'm gonna start tearing this apart today, In prep for sandblasting frame...

Plan is to do a total frame up resto/build rather than fight with the old rusty parts...

I'm going to assume I can strip this frame clean, and that I don't need any of the "factory" brackets, levers, or mounting plates for pulling application...

If there is anything I should "save" for later in the build let me know, (not that I'm throwing stuff away) but anything required for leagle build (eg: mower deck, or fender mounts or whatever)

Or if there are any parts that might have value on e-bay for stockers..?

Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 14, 2010, 11:43:35 AM
You will not need anything from the frame out left or right. If it has a creeper setup on it that is an easy $150 on ebay. You can use your own fenders or buy or build your own. In most cases it has to look like a tractor. Not like a cub cadet. You could build a set of fenders and make a Rugg hood grill fit it if you wanted. Keep the driveline. The stock clutch setup will bring some $ on ebay. The stock driver and hub will also sell on ebay. Not much but worth listing. I am unsure if NQS gets funny about welding holes shut on the frame rails.
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: Squidd on February 14, 2010, 12:02:02 PM
What about this...??
Quote
PRESSURE PLATES ARE STOCK BUT ARE STRAIGHT AND WERE RESURFACED BEFORE ASSEMBLING.  HAS A VOGEL HIGH PERFORMANCE STOCK REPLACEMENT CLUTCH DISC WITH ABOUT 20 PASSES, GOOD CONDITION.  HAS A HARDENED DRIVESHAFT WITH AN 800 LB SPRING. 

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Clutch-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Clutch-2.jpg)


This worth hanging on to..? or needs upgrade...?
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 14, 2010, 01:42:55 PM
Randy that is a good stock setup up to a mild build behind a single cylinder. I ran the same setup behind my opposed on my cub. A friend of mine ran that same setup behind a 45hp v-twin. It made it 2/3rds the season before the disk gave out. I would sell it and upgrade to a 3 puck setup from a good supplier. Initially pricey but will give years of trouble free service. The only bad thing about the aftermarket replacement disks is the fact they will not take a 7500rpm launch from the line. They do not like to be slipped and cannot take a ton of heat.
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: Big daddy on February 15, 2010, 06:32:12 AM
Flatheadpuller is totally correct about the clutch, it will be good for a stock to a mild build, after that you will need to replace the spring with a yellow one, definately replace the pressure plates and the friction disc with a better aftermarket plate. The MWSC 3 puck will be good to between 40-50hp, 35-50ft.lbs, 4 puck up to about 60ft.lbs. If you use these you will have to come up with some way to cool them down between runs especially if you are winding the motor really tight and slipping the clutch alot. We have always used stressproof (1144) for driveshaft material, it is easily workable and will last without breaking providing you have everything lined up correctly and is not really expensive to buy.
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: Squidd on February 15, 2010, 08:39:38 AM
Great... were going to have to come up with a list of desireable parts for this level of build, so I don't keep going out and buying the wrong stuff...

We should probably come up with a guide/list for the motor as well if I'm going to "piece" that together..
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 15, 2010, 01:58:08 PM
For a bullet proof clutch you do not have to worry about. Pick up a 4 puck clutch setup from MWSC. It has all the parts in one package. front to rear. No questions asked.

A good engine combo would be a long rod, short piston setup from Vogel. A steel .340 290@.050 vogel cam and gear combo. That grind is what I am doing for my AGND. Chuck told me its easy on valve train and a great cam. makes big Hp in an altered. A billet head or thick recast from Vogel designed for Vogels cam grinds. Billet block closure plate, Vogels good starter and mtn bracket. That will crank anything its bolted to. 25-30lb flywheel. You need alot of enertia with an altered. At least a forged steel crank from Vogel. A stock crank is borrowed time in a kohler turning 8000rpm. A 1.0 carb. MWSC are good, easy on the pocket book. Vogels are worth a couple more HP on a dyno. Send Chuck a good #26 core and he will send back a killer S/A carb. His do cost a little more. If you get a cam from Vogel make sure to get there springs and lifters they recomend for there cam.

Thats my list of opinions.
Dennis
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: Squidd on February 15, 2010, 02:06:20 PM
Quote
A good engine combo would be a long rod, short piston setup from Vogel

What do you mean by long rod short piston...?  I have seen rods from 5 3/4" to 6 1/4"  by eighths is there a matching piston pin height as well..?

I need to run stock stroke, so at least that parts is set....
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 15, 2010, 02:19:24 PM
Yes exactly Randy. Call MWSC and ask for a catolog. In the back they have a rod and piston combo chart with desired stroke. I think you can get pistons with a CH of .875, 1.0, 1.125. These will when combined with the correct rod give you a flush deck height or pop the piston out up to .060. There is HP to gain they say by poping the piston out of the deck. I have always ran them flush because I have no dyno or access to one. Bruce can sharre more on this. I do know they will run better with a 6.0 rod and short piston versus a 5.3 rod and stock piston. 
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: Big daddy on February 15, 2010, 03:23:34 PM
If you are going to pop the piston I would recommend either 0.09375" or 0.125" pop up depending on what you can get away with after all the deck relief’s are done. If you figure it out with an 8.625" deck height then you can run your own numbers. I personally recommend 0.125" even on a Kohler block, some guys say that it is too much but I have had really good luck with it. Your rod length will depend on your pin height and how much you pop up the piston. I highly recommend the gapless rings. Don't feel like you have to buy everything all at once. If you can weld the block, then do it first after it has been hot tanked, then remachine/square up the block even if you don't weld up the block, get your valves set in the block with new guides, if you can weld up the block you may want to look into moving the valves closer to the cylinder if your rules allow. If it were me to get started I would buy the piston, the valves the head, and the cam/lifters. With those parts you can get most of your engine done. Give me a shout before you buy your piston.

  Bruce
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 15, 2010, 08:15:24 PM
Bruce if you don't mind my asking what kind of numbers do you see with piston popout versus zero deck? Is it worth a couple HP? More? Also who's piston are you using that has that much room above the first ring land.

Dennis
Title: Re: Might have something here...
Post by: Big daddy on February 16, 2010, 06:31:45 AM
You may see a 1 or 2 HP difference, but the main gain is in torque. The trick is you do not want to relieve the deck area at the cylinder bore when popping up 0.125" otherwise you will expose the top ring, your reliefs may be a little steeper than you would have wanted but if you leave the deck area at the cylinder bore alone you should be fine, but you need to know how much has been shaved off when you have the deck trued up. This is key to know how much you can get away with when popping up the piston out of the cylinder, some Kohler blocks may not be able to pop up 0.125" but 0.0625" or 0.09375" is better than none in my opinion. I have been using Arias pistons in my motors for the past 20 years or so, but am planning on using a different piston this year. I talked with an individual who had changed from a 0.0625" to 0.125" pop up in a Kohler block motor in 1991, at that time he gained 2 hp, but also gained 5 ft/lbs. of torque. Most individuals will build it one way then leave it that way till they either sell the engine or build something different, that was one instance where I seen a side by side comparison.Ever since the aftermarket blocks came on the market I haven't heard of too many that were not popped up 0.125".
Title: Re: Tranny upgrade tutorial?
Post by: pullingman on March 15, 2010, 08:37:04 PM
I agree with leaving the rearend open.  If you are pulling in a goverened stock class, then a welded would be ok, just be ready to place the front wheel bearings every year.  If you are running any open class, I highly suggest leaving the diff. open.  A good alternative that is actually fairly cheap is using a fine spline with the two piece carrier.  That is what I use in mine and I know several are used in the open rpm v-twins.  They have held up and hung in there with the dodge darts.   
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Squidd on March 19, 2010, 10:05:06 AM
Rear wheels?

I've decided on 26"x12"x12" pro pulling tires, still looking for a good set used, with or without rims.

In the mean time, do I want 4x8 offset or 6x6 offset on the rims wider or narrow stance...?

100 series internal brake rear axle

I have heard narrow stance for "steering" advantage (shift weight) but also wider stance for "stability"...


Which is prefered....?
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Big daddy on March 19, 2010, 10:25:38 AM
You are correct, the narrow rear will allow more control. My tractor did seem to hook better with a wider rear but would get out of control sometimes so I went with the narrower rear. I prefer the 6 x 6 offset, I think it will allow more options for spacing the rear end. There was an individual selling "new" 2 ply Cepek tires for $300 on GT pulling's web site. I don't know anything about that deal, but I would check it out real good before I buy.
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 19, 2010, 01:33:14 PM
You can get a set of new VM07's from vogel for $345 plus shipping. There a good tire.
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Squidd on March 21, 2010, 08:19:22 AM
I saw a set of cepecks with alum wheels go for $325 on e-bay...I bid $310, I should have went one higher :noplease:

I have the ability to "widen" steel wheels...and may do that to get the offset I want, is there any major advantage to alum wheels, or is that more for looks....? I figure, What I save on rims I can up the anty on tires...
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 21, 2010, 09:10:38 AM
The lightweight rims are good for loosing rotating weight. Its easier on the drive train. I have never ran a set of aluminum wheels. I might for this tractor I am building now since its the last one I am building.
Title: Re: Tire sizes
Post by: Caudy155 on March 21, 2010, 11:28:13 PM
aluminum wheels all the way around are also good for more moveable weight on the tractor... the lighter you can make the chassis and still be strong the better off you will be
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it
Post by: Squidd on March 22, 2010, 08:45:17 AM
So what kind of weights are we looking at here...?

In WI GT Puller rules I have a 950# Max...and with Gopher State, I have a 1050# max...

What does one of these tractors weigh in fighting trim...? Considering I weigh in between 220 and 240 how much do I have to "play" with on the weight bar(s)...?

I would assume I would want to pull at Max weight(s) ?

Everybodys Favorite :roll: "official" start of a build picture...

Frame, hood, axle, and misc pieces ready for the sandblaster...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_March002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=March002.jpg)

This will be a frame up rebuild for competitive tractor pulling on a "reasonable" budget...It's my first one so we probably won't see a lot of "top of the line" parts as you will see strong enough to get the machine "started" in this classs....Upgrades are a natural progression and as things break or show themselves the weak link, they will be replaced with stronger and stronger pieces
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it
Post by: Big daddy on March 22, 2010, 10:27:03 AM
Now this is just a guess, with the model tractor you are starting with and using the factory hood/grill, and given your body weight (nothing personal) I would guess between 50-100lbs. in the 1050 class. My tractor with me on it could not make weight in the 950 class when I first built it in 2000, I swapped out the steel spacers for aluminum ones and was then able to make the 950 class, but had no moveable weight. The 950 lb. class is very hard to build a tractor for if the driver weighs much over 150lbs. Our association changed our light class to 1000lbs. and I could throw a weight or two on for that class depending on my eating habits for the week. I weight between 240-265 depending on how late I am weighed in the summer, LOL. At least that's the excuse I can use!!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it
Post by: Caudy155 on March 22, 2010, 04:24:41 PM
our long chassis prostocks we could get 120 on the belly bar and 5-15 lbs in the seat box and 100 or 110 on the weight bar... but usually ran alot of the weight on the front bar and about 70-80 on the belly when we pulled it... its been a few years lol i might not be exact
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on March 23, 2010, 07:26:09 AM
OK, so that's cutting it a lot closer than I thought...excess weight wise...

With that 70-80 lb cast nose, it may be worth looking into alternate sheet metal for the nose to lighten some of that up...?

I kind of like the look of a stock IH front, but that's a good chunk of weight that could be shifted.

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on March 23, 2010, 08:45:05 AM
yea randy amstutz and a few others sell fiberglass 70-100 grilles that are really nice but all of our tractors were hand built so they were pretty light
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on March 25, 2010, 08:36:37 AM
Got the start of my motor in today...

Bought a lightly used package from Zach at Kerber Machine...K341 block looks like extensive port work, haven't pulled the valves yet, but I have the ability to give it a  new 3 or 5 angle cut
Standard bore, very clean checked with current (used) ring, only .015" end gap.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_k341001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=k341001.jpg)

Along with bare block, I received a balanced crank, (which I will send in for magnaflux check)Crank is cut .010" under with matched rod and piston.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_k341004.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=k341004.jpg)

Looks to be a stock length billet rod (vogal?) with standard piston. I know this will be slightly down on power compared to an extended rod and short piston setup, but for the money, will get me started with a relatively competitive motor that I can build on..

Speaking of building, I'll have to tear into my k241 for the remainder of parts to put this together, hopefully the donor motor has enough good stuff in it to complete...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_K241.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=K241.jpg)

I'm in the middle of a "woodworking" project in the shop, (lotta flying sawdust) so it'll be a day or two before I can open the motors up to check it out.




Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on March 25, 2010, 12:06:17 PM
I would highly recommend changing the rod/piston combo there. 2 reasons, 1) the factory Kohler piston will start breaking in the skirt area when you start really turning your motor. 2) A longer rod will help the motor breath much better adding some hp and torque.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on March 25, 2010, 12:33:52 PM
OK..we have time yet...

You think i should sell the rod/Piston and go for an extended rod/short piston combo, maybe add in a little pop up...?

Will that dramaticly change the balance to the crank?

How critical is that extra hp and torque...? How fragile is that piston/skirt...?

I understand the long rod/short piston advantage, but how cricical is it at the track? Kind of like the tires, I am convinced the pro tires over stockers is the way to go, but is this a "chang it out or don't bother coming" thing, or just a "prefered" thing...?

In Lawnmower racing, the ARC rod with AVS piston is "prefered" , but lotta guys are running a lotta laps on an OHV rod and stock piston....?

I don't want to build a "bomb" and have to do it again, but there are a lot of other parts and pieces I need to purchase to get this project to the track....
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on March 25, 2010, 02:15:33 PM
It will make a difference in how the motor performs. If you have a good cam, good valve job, good ports, carb. etc. Then it will make a difference worth spending the money on to get the longer rod, and a forged piston. Depending on how much has been taken off the deck I would use either a 5.968" or 6.00" rod with a 1.125" pin height if you are going to use an Arias,J&E piston. I am not 100% sure what the pin height is on the Diamond piston. The deck height is 8.625" from CL of crank then just use the numbers to calculate what your pop up will be. MWSC,Vogel, and Nichols all have rod length charts to help you out there. It should not change your balance that much, you will be adding over 0.600" in rod, but the piston weight will be much less than the factory slug. Back in 89 I ran a 0.030" over Kohler piston for one season, that motor never ran over 6500rpm, and at the end of the season when I tore the engine apart there were cracks in the skirts. No chunks had seperated yet, but definately would have been a problem if I had run that piston another season.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on March 26, 2010, 10:24:36 AM
OK, still have a bunch of pieces to buy to get running, cam, carb, tires, wheels, flywheel, gearing etc...

I think I'll hang on to this rod and piston and see if a decent deal on an extended rod comes up before I bolt this together. Otherwise I'll run it for my first season, just get the tractor running and a few pulls under my belt...

... I have learned over the years if you half way do something when dealing with real power you will be doing some major in season repairs . Build it as cheaply as possible, then when it breaks let me know what broke and i will tell you how to fix it

Quote from: Squidd
This will be a frame up rebuild for competitive tractor pulling on a "reasonable" budget...It's my first one so we probably won't see a lot of "top of the line" parts as you will see strong enough to get the machine "started" in this classs....Upgrades are a natural progression and as things break or show themselves the weak link, they will be replaced with stronger and stronger pieces

I think we're talking on the same lines, like I say i don't want to build a ticking bomb, but I'm sure my first half dozen runs won't be at full speed untill I sort thru the chassis setup and weights and see what the compitition is doing.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 11, 2010, 04:32:55 PM
Squidd how is this project coming? Any new news?

Dennis
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on September 02, 2010, 05:56:01 PM
I'm with Dennis hows your project coming.

Tim
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 02, 2010, 07:08:52 PM
Slow, definetly, but I haven't given up on it yet...

Mostly with sending two girls to collage this fall (one starting the other returning) cash flow has been "squeezed" a bit this summer as we got them ready to go off...the good news is now me and Momma got the place to ourselves, so things should free up here time and moneywise...

Where I left it in the spring is pretty much where she's been sitting, other than a sandblast and primer job I haven't done much...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_September002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=September002.jpg)

Still on look out for rear wheels and tires to set frame height (fenders, front axle etc...) and a cam and carb so I can start on the motor. Your build pics and Dennis' run picks have giving the urge again, so we'll be seeing progress as parts roll in...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 05, 2010, 11:59:15 AM
Quote
Lakota grind 258+7.5, lift is 248 and duration is 269.

Can anyone tell me about this cam, Is this the "Hot Stocker" from Lakota that will pass "Stock class lift" but have additional duration...? Will it turn Higher rpm's or should I hold for a .330 or .340 cam and be done with it ?

Thinking maybe building a solid stocker to try this (pulling) out, before jumping into a S/A-Pro Lite class machine... Still torn between geting 'er done and going all out..

With block being ported and billet rod, no gov, I may just have to build a "mild S/A" for now and then upgrade once chassis is tweaked in a bit..




Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 06, 2010, 03:12:23 PM
Well now I went and did it....

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_K241003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=K241003.jpg)

I opened up my first Kohler today.....  :omg:  Just like a Briggs but Heavier....NOT  !!   :bash:

A monster compared to those whimpy little aluminum Briggs I was playing with.. This thing is awsome, solid heavy duty huge bearings, cast everything, this has a lot of strength and a lot of potential...!!!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_K241002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=K241002.jpg)
Did I mention the huge bearings.. :woo:

Felt good to be back out in the shop and getting greasy again, looking forward to putting this thing back together with some shiney upgraded parts...  >:D

May have to tear into the transaxle next...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 06, 2010, 06:21:31 PM
Randy with your ported block and such I would hold out for a SA cam. A real good grind on the cheap is vogels 340-277-8. He can put it on a cast core that you send him. With a stock length rod and oem piston youll have a solid performer. You can get them on ebay quite often. The cam you questioned about is a stocker grind. You 16 block probably wouldn't be a good choice for a stocker build. The port work is too much for a stocker. And yes kohlers are no briggs engine. If your suprised about the kohler you should see the inside of my wisconsin.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 07, 2010, 07:31:47 AM
If I do send this cam in for rework, it says check points lobe for wear...

How much is too much wear..? This one has slight groove on entrance ramp, (maybe .004 at deepest) is that too much for our purposes...?

This is the wost of it, the rest is just "shiney" on the lobe
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_K241Cam002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=K241Cam002.jpg)

Should I look for a completely smooth one for a core...or will this work?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 07, 2010, 01:27:25 PM
I would say that is too much Randy. It should be smooth. Unless you run a crank trigger then it doesnt matter at all.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 07, 2010, 01:51:12 PM
OK, I would want to build a cam on a solid foundation, so will continue to look for clean core...

Will probably want to start with points ign and move up to crank as familiarity and need arise
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: tinyt on September 16, 2010, 07:45:33 PM
i am a puller in MD, been pulling for 6 years, and i would say start in stock class beacuse stock class has so many grey lines it is stock altered on a govner (pretty much) stock class is the best place to start also alot more competion, will also teach you more driving skills, stock class you realy got to work a track to win, stock altered is a little less involded when it comes to the driving (my opinion) if you do run in stock altered your gonna want a ***** cam!! not vogal or lakota (tractor pulling is all secerets, logal tells you and shows you the info on there cams, in tractor pulling thats not something you want), ***** cams is what todd vorhees puts in his motors( he is 3rd in the nqs engine building cup)

 i pull with the current NQS S/A champion ( he lives in the same town as me)(bob cooper) so competion around are parts is high, i feel that backs my word up more then enough

also go to NQSpulling.org for rules and scores of the big guys in pulling

 email me for more info (tinyt654@aim.com) not gonna tell alll of my sercerts over the web, i am willing to help newcomers though( i will not say the cam makers name over the internet, email me and i will tell you his name and his number) his cams are far more superior then vogal and lakota, dyno sheets to proove it.  (also i have plenty of parts i can sell you to help you along the way, including bone stock k341 blocks) just email me for faster response
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 18, 2010, 04:53:19 PM
Steering gear was tight (too tight) and gritty, I thought about switching to a direct steer setup, but I took it apart cleaned it up and "renewed" the steering gear...

Nice worm drive setup with new locator pin filled with grease and turns smooth and tight (the good kind of tight) so will order up a new steering wheel and use it in the build.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Cub002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Cub002.jpg)


Long as the shop was warm and I had grease on my hands I pulled the transaxle apart for inspection and cleaning. Got the internal brake cleaned up and working smooth (needs a puck). 2-3 cluster has some wear, but I'll probably be changing it out for pulling anyway.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Cub003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Cub003.jpg)

Good solid feel to this transaxle, 1" axles, huge bearings, cast iron housings, I can see why they are so popular with the pullers...

Going to spend some time on Brian Millers site getting familiar with whats in there, but will need a little help in choosing gears to run..

I'm thinking leaving 1st and reverse alone and just changing out 2-3 cluster with maybe a 23-25 set...?

What are the determining factors in picking gearing sets...?

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 18, 2010, 10:33:57 PM
Picking gears is tough Randy when your unsure of hp your making or tires your running or tracks your pulling on. I run a 4 speed setup with a 23,24,25,26. My tractor is geared just right for the tracks around here. I can run on the loose stuff with the big gear and gear down a couple for the power tracks. I would start on the lower side and then if needed install a one over pinion or even an over drive if needed to get your gear where you want it. It is good to skip a tooth if running just a 2,3 swap. If your running an ag tire a 23-25 might work but I think it would be too tall for use with a pulling tire with a stock stroke altered 16 on a power track.

Dont let the axles fool you I just twisted one off and broke a welded carrier friday on a super nice power track. It was the best I ever seen.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 19, 2010, 06:02:30 AM
I'm just lookingto get into ball park for now, I can run the bases when I get there and fine tune gearing once I get a few runs under my belt...

When you say "too tall" would you suggest something more like a 22 and 24...? or less...?

Or should I just run "stock gears" for now and see where that takes me, but I'm assuming the 19 (2nd) will be to low and the 26 (3rd) would be too tall for most tracks

If it helps, the goal at this point is a 16 SA with stock stroke, 340 range cam 6500 rpm, reworked stock valves, 1" carb on gas, 26x12x12 pulling tires, ...Tracks are unknown at this point ...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 19, 2010, 07:01:49 AM
Dont let the axles fool you I just twisted one off and broke a welded carrier friday on a super nice power track. It was the best I ever seen.

Good thing I bought the extra transaxle for parts when I started this project...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 19, 2010, 07:53:47 AM
Bought a few more parts off e-bay, some I may want to turn over and upgrade before I use them..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Carb.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Carb.jpg)
# 26 carb, thought I needed that for the 1" bore but after reading looks like I might be better off with a #30 cause they measure the venturi rather than the throttle bore..??

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Cam.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Cam.jpg)
Cams, couple of them... I bought a couple "cores" since mine had a worn points lobe, but in the mean time I picked up a welded/reground Lakota cam, springs and retainers (348 lift 269 duration 107.5 seperation) which should be close to the 340/277/8 Vogle sells...? Worst case i have something to start with and a couple cores to build on...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Head.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Head.jpg)
Recast head, hope this was worth the money, supposed to b flow tested and ground for higher lift cam..

The more I research, the harder it gets to pick pieces that "match" or will work with the setup I have..

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 19, 2010, 12:34:24 PM
On a cylinder head Randy you can run a stock head. It will clear the valve lift no problem. You can weld the ramp up and remachine and have real good luck with them. The cam you got will get you started on you way nicely. There is better, but that will run well. There a couple good ones on ebay currently.  I believe I saw a 340-292 vogel cam on there. That will surely out run the one you have now. But the lakota will run strong for a start in pulling. Remember stock altered is just that. A stock head will work. Midwests $100 SA head is a real nice investment. Bolt on and go. I can also tell you how to make that #26 carb run if you want to save some funds there just to get started. PM me about that. I have built alot of them for other pullers.
I would try a 20-22 if your on clay or a 22-24 if your on mostly loose tracks.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 21, 2010, 07:53:57 PM
Lakota cam came in today, expected a welded reground stock casting, was plesantly surprised to find a steel piece

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_k341002-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=k341002-1.jpg)

Course now I'm in need of adjustable cam gear and springs to match...which means I can spin the spin the motor faster...which means I should probably keep an eye out for a steel crank...which means....

Anybody have any idea how that adjustable points lobe is supposed to work or will that become apparent when I dial in the cam.. ?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 22, 2010, 07:07:57 AM
My opinion Randy is this. Use one of midwests crank trigger kits. Set it and forget it. $90 no more hassles. Vogel has the best deal on a crank. $275 for a forged steel piece. I would run the stock crank though the first year. You won't break it with the cam you have. It will prolly only turn 6500-7000
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 22, 2010, 07:14:24 AM
Cool, definetly want to keep this in the realm of "first year tractor" and not break the bank with top of the line everything...

Knowing crank, rod/piston and now cam... do I still want a 25# flywheel, or a 20# with heavy pulley on front or....? I do want to go 9.5" and ring gear starter...what starter goes with no compression release cam..? you had mentioned toyota starters at one point...?

Thanks



Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 22, 2010, 11:37:58 AM
Randy you can use a 10 tooth stock starter instead of a 13 tooth starter or a toyota starter and bracket from vogel. I would run a 25lb flywheel with a ring gear on it and no other pulley. Start hanging lots of weight from the stock crank and it will break. With your stock piston and billet rod you have and the cam you have with a stock head and a good carb you will have a real stout setup. Good for getting your feet wet in the sport. Use one of midwests crank trigger setups and it will be a runner. No reason to spend big bucks out the gate.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on September 22, 2010, 12:12:16 PM
I agree with the heavier flywheel, the stock stroke motors have some trouble with torque. The Bosch starter will have trouble with cranking the engine without a compression release, but like he said the Toyota starter will do the job. It would not hurt to put an aluminum pulley out front in case your battery gets low, that way you can still start it with a cart. Good luck, keep us informed!!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 25, 2010, 07:24:11 AM
You mentioned a stock head would be OK, any reason I "wouldn't" want to use this aluminum head...?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Head.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Head.jpg)

I assume with no fins on flywheel i don't need fins on the head for cooling...?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_head003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=head003.jpg)

Once I get the block, rod, piston set up and check for pop up, I was thinking of having the ridge shaved off to raise compression...good idea or no...?



Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 25, 2010, 07:31:23 AM
Randy compare the head you have with a true S\A head for a 16hp. The head you have looks to be a 50.5 head setup for a ton of popout and a huge intake valve. You will loose a bunch of compression with that head even if you remachine it. It is billet aluminum however and you could have it welded up and remachined. Check this link for a good s\a head. You can see how tight the combustion chamber is. The area around the valves is close to stock design. For stock size valves.
http://www.midwestsupercub.net/1%20cyl%20parts.pdf
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 25, 2010, 07:48:05 AM
Ah yes, I see now... I thought the combustion chamber looked big wasn't sure if that was good or not, but now I can see the difference. I don't have a stock head to compare to, but I can pick one up...

Looks like I got another piece to re-e-bay...lol...

 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 26, 2010, 08:14:12 AM
... I can also tell you how to make that #26 carb run if you want to save some funds there just to get started. PM me about that. I have built alot of them for other pullers.
I would try a 20-22 if your on clay or a 22-24 if your on mostly loose tracks.

I had a guy offer a 21-23 set which puts me right between those two... thinking of taking him up on it...


(PM sent)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 29, 2010, 04:17:11 PM
So I ordered the gears, 21-23, and gasket sets for both the Motor and the transaxle...

I also picked up a high torque starter and mount for a single cylinder motor

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Starter1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Starter1.jpg)

If it will spin a 4 cylinder Toyota, It should have no problem on a little 16 hp motor...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 03, 2010, 07:53:10 PM
Went to one of my old lawnmower graveyard sites looking for a stock head for my Kohler...

Found this Cub Cadet 80 Fiberglass hood and nose...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Hood002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Hood002.jpg)

Not in the greatest shape, but weighs in at 15# or so compared to the 50 or 60# of the stock Cast Nose and heavy gauge sheet metal hood... Weight I can move around as needed..

With a little "glass" work, I think I may get it to fit...no luck on the head.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on October 03, 2010, 10:39:02 PM
i had a 30 cube that had one of those hoods on it we had an aluminum dash made it was a nice setup and a really nice little tractor
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 06, 2010, 05:49:56 PM
Got my pulling gears in, look to be in good shape..going to change out 2nd and 3rd to 21-23 tooth

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Gears002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Gears002.jpg)

I know it looks like I'm just posting pics of stuff I bought, But soon I should be able to start putting some of these pieces together.Starting with the tranny.

I had asked about motor gaskets in another thread, but now, should I use gaskets in the transaxle during reassembly or can I RTV the sections together...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 06, 2010, 08:03:29 PM
Randy I always use a good black rtv on the trans housings and never had a leak. No gaskets required. You will probably have to modify the stock 2-3 fork to clear the slider gear set. Not a bad job just time consuming.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on October 07, 2010, 04:27:06 AM
He is right, to get the fork over the new cluster gear you may have to grind off a good portion of the fork. I built mine up with a few pieces of thin metal and welded it solid then made sure it was square before I started fitting the fork over the cluster gear. Also make sure the bevel is facing the correct direction on the pinion shaft gears. As far as the gaskets go, if you have them use them, if not silicone will do fine.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 07, 2010, 11:43:09 AM
I saw something about that on Brian Millers site, but the picture is of poor quality...

Do you guys have a better picture showing the modifications to fork ?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 07, 2010, 02:31:36 PM
I dont have any pic Randy but you will see as soon as you have the forks out put your slider cluster gear in the fork and it should hit on the bottom side of the fork at the top of it.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 07, 2010, 05:01:57 PM
Got the fork out checked gears against new cluster and see where I need clearance/strength..

Made a couple wedges to beef up the forks...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Forks001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Forks001.jpg)

A little measuring and grinding, and I'm hopeing this is what you guys were refering to..


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Forks002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Forks002.jpg)

Now I'm reading I need to grind the spacer and case for 3rd gear clearance and aftermarket gear width..

Aything else I should look at while I'm in there...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on October 08, 2010, 04:28:05 AM
The build up I am talking about is on the top portion of the fork. I know after I had cleared mine out where the material had to be removed would weaken the fork while you are shifting into gear, the fork would flex somewhat and may let the gears move a little under load. Plus the first aftermarket topshafts we used did not fit the cluster gear perfectly, and sometimes slid a little rough on the topshafts. I think they are all good now, but still there is the issue if the fork is weak then there might be slight movement of the cluster gear under load.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 08, 2010, 07:23:24 AM
Yes, I saw that last night when I went to check the case and bottom shaft clearance...

I only have a 21 tooth 2nd so I didn't have to grind much, but the reinforcement makes me feel beter...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Forks005.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Forks005.jpg)

I measured the width of the stock and aftermarket gears and cut the tapered spacer the .060 difference to maintain gear alignment and pinion preload.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 08, 2010, 05:43:53 PM
Randy what kind of tires are you looking for and what size carb can you run. I have a set of nice double cut carlise's on professional widened steel wheels. I also have a 1.200 vogel stock body carb setup for gas. These parts were on my tractor this summer. I can sell the tires and wheels or just tires.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 08, 2010, 07:10:46 PM
Not completly sure on the tires yet, we had discussed them eariler in the build and were leaning toward a production pulling tire 26x12x12 and I've been keeping my eye out for Firestones and Carlisles as well...something used, preferably something that won't hold me back without going overboard on budget. I'm at the point in the build where I will need tires and wheels to set ride height and get frame build going. I do have a chunk of change coming in shortly, so will be ready to finalize tire selection I'll PM you on the tires/wheels

Someone had mentioned tire weight as a factor that there can be a 40-50# difference in brands... anything to watchout for there...?

On the carb, I have two clubs rules to work with one says 1.2" and the other says 1" both say gas only...Last year they were both 1" so choice was pretty simple...now will need to reexamine (I just saw change now)

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 08, 2010, 07:34:08 PM
I can tell you this Randy. My tires in both clubs I run with will run with and beat any pulling tire there is. I did it this summer. You can see it in my videos I posted. On a good track or loose track I could win. The only reason I want a pulling tire is for the higher gear ratio. The carlise is shorter than a pulling tire. I dont think there is any tire that much heavier than another. Steel wheels are heavier than aluminum for obvious reasons. Is there a disadvantage, some say yes some say no. I havent had it proved to me in the clubs I pull with. The tractors with pulling tires I beat this summer had aluminum wheels and pulling tires and I had steelies with double cut carlises. On a pure power track they will run just as well as a pulling tire. High wheel speed machines the pulling tire will shine. At least thats the way it is where I pull.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 09, 2010, 09:14:46 AM
I didn't mean to infer that the Carlisles would hold me back, I ment compared to a 23" or some "off brand" tire I might pick up cheap....

I saw them hooking up in the videos, so would probably do me good...Might even be an advantage to smaller ratio with the level of motor I'm starting with...

PM sent

Just saw your ad on GT Puller Classified...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 09, 2010, 04:54:36 PM
Working on tranny some more, got the countershaft in, only took me like 6 tries...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_trans001-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=trans001-1.jpg)

Then the top shaft with new cluster gears... that only took two tries..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_trans003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=trans003.jpg)

Then I had to reset the carrier, seems even with careful measurement, the pinion moved a tad with the new gears, so I had to reshim for proper clearance...only took 42 tries and a couple phone calls to talk me thru it... spins smooth now...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_trans004-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=trans004-1.jpg)

I still like how beefy that looks, but Ifound I have the thin carrier and course spline axles, so we'll probably be seeing this view again...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on October 09, 2010, 10:35:05 PM
Lookin great! looks like you are making good progress. Looking foreward to seeing a rolling chassis!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on October 11, 2010, 10:26:06 AM
Make sure you cut an 1/8" steel plate to go on the outside of the bearing cups for the ring gear side, especially if you are using the cast iron cups. There have been many pullers that have broken the bolt hole sections of the bearing cups over the years when using the stock casting. The plate is to stiffen the bolt hole sections of the bearing cup so they will not break. Drill the 3 holes for the mounting bolts, and a large hole for the axle and you are in business.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 11, 2010, 12:02:05 PM
Got it, will look into a reinforcement plate for the cup...just the ring gear side..?

Got a few more parts in, billet adjustable cam gear, SA springs, and billet retainer to go with Lakota cam I have....will be able to start on motor soon as gaskets are in.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_camstuff001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=camstuff001.jpg)

Also got one of these to dial cam in, but it didn't come with instructions...so expect more questions when we're ready for this...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_camstuff003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=camstuff003.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 12, 2010, 08:45:57 AM
Gaskets are in, waiting for rings then we can start the motor build...

Received axle seals and brake pucks so now I can finish up the transaxle...bolt to frame and figure front axle height...speaking of which...do I want a pivot point on axle, or can I bolt/weld it solid..??

Along the same lines some one had mentioned removing the center section (tunnel) from the cub frame so the frame rails would "flex"...? is this a good idea or do I want to weld the center section in to "stiffen" the frame.. which is better for pulling..?

Also track width, rules say "front must be in the track of the rear tires..." do I want to go as wide as possible or as narrow as possible, or just make the axle the same width as stock one...?

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 12, 2010, 10:19:13 AM
Randy what I have done on the front of them is this.

Get a front axle from an old sears custom six. Its 1\2 plate and narrower than a cub axle. Weld it directly to the front of the chassis. Very front or rails not under them. Before welding install an oil pan where the engine mounts so it doesn t move on you. leave the pan in and cut out all old front axle hanger metal. This will lower the front, extend the wheel base in one shot. Reuse the stock j spindles from the cub axle. Yo then remove the steering arm on the top of left spndle and cut and weld it to the bottom of the j spindle.  your drag link will need to be lengthened. You can still use stock parts to do this. Drill and tap top of jspindles for a 5\16 bolt and washer to hold the spindles in. Weld in some 1/8 plate along frame under oil pan for reinforcement of engine mount.  With a 6 or 8 inch front rim it gives it a nice rake, and good looks especially if your using that 108 hood. It will look good. You can buy the piece for the drag link at east coast pulling parts. They have a web sight just not sure of its name. Or just make it out of square stock. Thay have a picture of it so you can just copy it. This setup is simple and lightweight. And it will flex. We run my stepdads open vtwin with this axle setup and it is nice to drive and easy to run.

Here is the link. You can buy a kit axle for 65 from this place. Or copy it. Its just some steel. http://www.eastcoastpullingparts.com/chassisproducts.htm
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on October 12, 2010, 10:26:47 AM
personally I would leave the tunnel in the frame, too much flex will be a bad thing. Remember you are trying to keep alignment between the engine and transaxle at all times. Misalignment down the track will be bad for the drive shaft. The tunnel not only provides torsional strength but also lateral and vertical strength. Front axles are basically what ever pops into your mind. I have seen round tube, square tube, ones that pivot, ones that don't. it all depends on what you want to make of it. Mine is a round tube that pivots and drops the fron end down about 3". While you are working on the frame around the engine, it would be advisable to weld another thickness to the frame right under the pan mounting area. TRUST ME you will need it!! without beefing up the frame in this section you will bend/break the frame around the motor mount bolts.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 12, 2010, 10:33:16 AM
Speaking of reinforcing around the motor mount... I read on Millers site I will have to "widen" the frame for the 9.5" wheel and blower housing to fit narrow rails..?

Does anyone have any clear pics/directions on that...?

As far as axle, I have some spindles, hubs and axle tube from roundy round days, thought I'd use that with 6" alum wheels and 3.50x6" tri ribs... will weld that on solid, sounds like spindle/axle comes out just below frame rail in front...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on October 12, 2010, 12:28:38 PM
yea you can weld your axle in wherever and however you want but bottom of the frame is always easier we used to make drop axles to use the stock cub j spindles... dad found a frame degree in the past twenty years that seems to work real well with long chassis pro/super tractors but we also used to have some good handleing stock frames as well... not alot of extra bracing is necisary maybe beefing up the crossmember a little but other than that i wouldnt worry about anything else.... also not a bad idea to run a pillowblock bearing on the crossmember between the clutch and trans to keep the driveshaft from gettin all loosey goosey with the chassis flex... never had one problem running them just make sure you get it spaced correctly no drag on the driveshaft... but it is all up to you we have a notebook at home dad calls the bible... has about every measurement you can imagine... 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on October 13, 2010, 10:29:17 AM
I wouldn't cut and widen the frame to fit the flywheel and housing, first thing don't use the housing for the 9.5" flywheel, make a flywheel and clutch shroud combo that fits on top of the frame, and can bolt inside the frame away from the flywheel. You can take the bearing plate for the 9.5" flywheel and just outside the casting ring around the bolts you can cut away what you do not need and it will fit in the frame nicely. I used a 9.5" flywheel without the ring gear in a narrow frame and did not have to cut/widen the frame to make it fit.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 13, 2010, 10:45:10 AM
Good to know, I was gonna ask on the blower housing, didn't seem neccessary if I don't have cooling fins on flywheel, although I have heard of guys bolting on the plastic fans from Briggs wheels...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on October 13, 2010, 12:07:39 PM
I wouldn't mess with it. If you are having that much trouble with heat you can put a fan on the motor, that will direct more air to where you want it. Unless you are running the engine a really long time I wouldn't worry about it. Remember this, the flywheel is on the cool side of the block, some of the pullers I see using the fans will put the fan on the exhaust side of the block.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 13, 2010, 02:27:14 PM
... You can take the bearing plate for the 9.5" flywheel and just outside the casting ring around the bolts you can cut away what you do not need and it will fit in the frame nicely...

So I could cut down and use the bearing plate from the K214 and them I could re-sell the 9.5"  plate and blower cover I bought on E-Bay... (note to self...stop buying parts before asking...)

Cleaned up the frame, tapped all the weld nuts on the frame and cleaned out the base plate mounts..stich welded the tunnel to frame rails to add strength.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Frame002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Frame002.jpg)

Cut off the heavy cast axle...Welded in 1/8" reinforcement in motor mount area and welded in 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" rec tube axle...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Frame001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Frame001.jpg)

Axle is mounted all the way forward and spindles dropped for 3 1/2" rake and angled back for 2* caster when rolling...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Frame003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Frame003.jpg)

Just debateing whether I should slide the rear axle back 2" to give me a full 52" wheel base...Should be just drilling the holes and getting a longer driveshaft coupler right...? (and brake linkage) If so I think I'll take advantage of it...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 13, 2010, 06:09:11 PM
Going farmer now....got a set of 3.50-6" Tri Ribs for the front

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_tires.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=tires.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on October 14, 2010, 04:27:45 AM
You might want to mock up your wheelbase before redrilling your rear end holes if you are shooting for 52". With your front axle location I would check what you have now before moving the rear end just to make sure you don't exceed your wheelbase limitations. Definately looks like you are getting there!! Keep plugging away!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 14, 2010, 07:33:33 AM
Definetly will mock up first.... did a rough measurement with approx of where rear axle should be and came up with 50" but will double check refine before drilling so I'm not 1/2" or so over NQS limit.

Wisconsin says 60" Gopher state said 56" but I may want to stick my nose in a NQS event so I'll use their WB for now....
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 14, 2010, 08:06:52 AM
Do I need a cam cover /dipstick for my K341, or will standard cover work ie: where do I put the oil in/check level...??
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on October 14, 2010, 10:28:19 AM
I would leave the dipstick portion out of it, a lot of these engines will blow them out anyway. If you are using the deep sump cub pan with a stock stroke crank just put 1 1/2 quarts, then change it every weekend after a run and you will be fine. Depending on which spec. block you use may determine where you fill the oil at. Some blocks will fill on the starter side, some on top of the crankcase opposite the camshaft, and some fill in the cam gear cover. MWSC makes a nice cam gear cover with fill hole.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 14, 2010, 06:15:16 PM
Looks like the bearing carrier/hub on the 9.5" plate is beefier than the 8" plate, so I'll trim that one down for use, and put the 241 plate on e-bay

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_backplate001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=backplate001.jpg)

Done ...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_backplate.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=backplate.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 15, 2010, 09:26:14 PM
Ordered fenders off E-bay today Sears Suburban 1/2 shell looks similar to the ones Dennis has on his tractor, much better price than Cub fenders...Looking at this pic and I think Dennis said he had 4x8 rims...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_tractorseat1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=tractorseat1.jpg)

I question whether I can use 6x6 rims or should order 4x8 rims instead....?

With the width of the cub tranny as guide and 6x6 rims coming to an inch of the tranny...not sure if I'll have room for my but in the narrow seat... ??

Is there an advantage or disadvantage to building the seat a little higher (even with tops of fenders) so I can slide across for steering..? Then I could have them closer together (6x6 rims)



Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 15, 2010, 10:02:50 PM
Randy I built mine that way because its a personal prefernce. I just like it low. With a seat box like most people use your seat will be level with the top of sears fenders. Maybe even a lttle taller. The cub does look good with sears fenders. I have a fellow puller here  that has them on his cub. My rims are 3.5 backspacing. My stepdads open tractor has 4x8 douglas wheels with jd shell fenders. They are almost identical to sears fenders.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 16, 2010, 06:46:41 AM
Probably a rhetorical question, but is there any reason I would not want to use my original seat and spring...?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Seat.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Seat.jpg)

Looks tall enough to clear (too tall?) maybe lose spring and build solid mount to transfer "butt pressure", does it make the 3" rule...?

I kinda like the flat, sliding across the top, weight transfer of flat steel seat, but this has nice retro look..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 16, 2010, 04:43:20 PM
Got the front end and steering put together today, put the tires on and made some links

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_steering002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=steering002.jpg)

I was able to squeeze another 1 1/2" out of wheel base by redrilling and moving the transaxle back. Now need to make longer coupler for driveshaft to tranny input, and lengthen brake linkage, not sure I have enough adjustment. Wanted to get that set before I start fitting fenders, tires and wheels

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_steering003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=steering003.jpg)

This is approximate rake with 26" tires in the rear...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_steering004.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=steering004.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: jerb on October 16, 2010, 05:12:58 PM
Looks great Randy, been following your build thread for quite awhile, anxious to see it done and some vids of competition!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 16, 2010, 05:37:28 PM
Thanks

I'm really enjoying being back out in the shop welding and cutting and wrenching and fabbing...haven't had a nice little project since I built the FX 3 yrs ago...

Also gives me a chance to meet a whole nother group of organized guys for a bit of friendly competition and bench racing (pulling..?)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 16, 2010, 05:53:57 PM
Randy that is looking great. Front end turned out nice. Just watch the left spindle once you have some weight on it. It takes alot of abuse. I know you said you used kart parts. What kind of weights you using. I have a guy here local that can make and ship weights for a good price. Just like what I use. Steel suitcase weights. They are less then MWSC weights. Also if you choose round weights. Watch craigslist for round iron barbell weights. They can be had cheap.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 16, 2010, 06:05:45 PM
I have a pretty fair stack of steel lifting plates here (not getting much use) I figure I build a mount and use them to start...

From eariler posts sounded like I wouldn't have more than 100# or so to deal with, if that, although I have removed a bit of weight with the axle and fiberglass hood ...so we'll see once I can get it on a scale..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 16, 2010, 06:18:28 PM
My stepdads open tractor uses round weights. They look nice cleaned up and painted. He has a 1 inch od bar under neath using the holes your foot rests use at the rear of the foot rest. bar hangs down low enough to get a 15lb weight on it. Then a front bar with a lock on it. Hairpins work nice for locking weights on. Thats what he uses.

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 16, 2010, 07:54:22 PM
Steering wheel...I'm thinking 10" padded cart wheel...

Would that give me enough steering leverage...? or would I need to go bigger 12" or 14"...?

With that cam drive steering gearbox, it feels smooth and light with just a vice grips to turn it..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 17, 2010, 12:42:57 PM
Hood was bothering me from that last pic, so I cut the dashboard and steering column to get it to fit ...This should be the final fit and profile with rake and front extention.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Hood004.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Hood004.jpg)    (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Hood001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Hood001.jpg)

Now I just wait for tires and fenders to come in (hopefully this week) and make a final decision on wheels...I have the technology to widen my original steel wheels for about $50, and thought that would be a cool project to show, but I'm kinda liking the shiney aluminum fronts and thinking shiney rears would be cool too, but their around $250 delivered, unless I can find some used.

So we'll just have to see if I can hold out till I get the cash together...or I bust out the welder so I can get this project "rolling"...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on October 18, 2010, 09:26:19 AM
looks good randy! cant wait to see it done... what calss are you running? stock or stock alt?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 18, 2010, 01:31:00 PM
Basicly a NQS Stock Altered open RPM on gas, WGTP calls it a "Light Pro Mod" and Gopher State Pullers call it Stock Altered,

Running in 1050# class, gonna see if I can make weight for 950# class...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on October 18, 2010, 03:33:58 PM
shouldnt have a problem a good straight frame is all you need you dont have to go overboard with the bracing like a racer the front axle engine crossmember dash and the trans does a good job of keepin it stirdy
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 19, 2010, 03:41:39 PM
Big brown toy truck must have stopped by while I was out and dropped off a couple goodie boxes on the porch...

Got my fenders from E-Bay...and double cut Carlisles with experiance for the rear...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Tires002-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Tires002-1.jpg)

Also picked up modified carb and filter/adaptor for engine build  (thanks Dennis)
This is a 30 size carb with 1.02 venturi for WGTP class rules, and I still have a stock 26 size 1.0" carb I want to modify as part of this build to meet Gopher state GT Pullers clubs rules

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Tires001-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Tires001-1.jpg)



Now I need to decide on rear wheels so I can get fenders mounted up and seat built...leaning heavily toward the shiney aluminum ones... 8)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 21, 2010, 10:11:32 AM
I'm going with the steel wheels...

 Partly cause I want to say I built them... Partly cause I can use the $250 for other "go fast" parts like upgrading the clutch or crank... but mostly cause I want to mount the tires up this weekend and continue the build...    :drool:  

Dropped the rims of at the machine shop this morning so they can split them on a lathe, should be able to pick them up tomorrow...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 22, 2010, 07:53:56 AM
I'm ready to order my flywheel.. we have been talking 25#... now is that a 23# wheel with 2# ring...? or do I want the 25# wheel and add the 2# ring to that...?

Also what other parts do I need to "adapt" to drive shaft/clutch...? Do I need a pin driver or adaptor or clutch hub or throwout bearing...?

I should probably order all from one mfg so they fit together...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 22, 2010, 09:39:50 AM
Randy quick and simple just order a complete clutch assembly. Mid Atlantic performance has a good one that is less then MW clutch. All you need is a 3 puck setup for what you have. Get one with an extended arm on it. I think Mid Atlantic set up is around 275. As for a flywheel use a 25lb then add the ring gear.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on October 22, 2010, 10:23:20 AM
When you get a clutch hub, get one that bolts to the flywheel. Don't get the one with the pin that drives  off the flywheel they have a tendancy to come loose. Use one that bolts to the flywheel directly!!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 22, 2010, 12:36:48 PM
I'm still not picturing it.. the flywheel bolts to crankshaft, clutch hub bolts to flywheel, driver bolts to clutch hub...

where is the throwout bearing..?

I didn't see any combo deals for $275...? ($360 at mid atlantic)


I already have this clutch assembly


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Clutch-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Clutch-2.jpg)

I thought we determined this would hold up to a mild SA build...? do I need to upgrade just parts of it (clutch, plates spring) or should I sell out and get a $360 unit plus hub adaptor...?

Can I mix and match parts or should I get it all from one..?

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 22, 2010, 04:47:47 PM
Worked on the wheels today, had the stock 7" wide rims split 1/2" from edge of rim...I had a machine shop do it on a rather large lathe, but it could also be cut on a brake lathe (if you know how to talk to the operator)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Tires004.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Tires004.jpg)

I also had the Machine shop cut some 5" wide by 33" long strips of steel and run them thru a slip roll to form loops
Held with a strap they are welded into one piece loops

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Tires005.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Tires005.jpg)

Tacked them in place with the rim halves and finish welded on the inside

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Tires006.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Tires006.jpg)

Put a coat of sealer on the welds and now I have a custom 12" wide rim...Going to paint them up tonight and ready to mount the tires tomorrow...


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Tires007.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Tires007.jpg)



Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 22, 2010, 08:04:22 PM
In your picture randy the to bearing is directly behind the release arm. It slides on the shaft. On your clutch setup you have are the psi plates stock or billet steel. If you have billet pressure plates you can reuse those, youll need a yellow spring for gaurenteed no clutch slip. Youll need a different drive shaft with the correct spacing on the holes for a 3 puck clutch disk. The clutch you have could get you started but with that replacement disk it will not take high rpm slipping while leaving the line.

Your rims are going to look great when finished. Very nice welds. Should not need tubes with those.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on October 22, 2010, 08:09:11 PM
I second that! very nice job on the rims great welds, they will look great when finished!

Tim
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 23, 2010, 06:17:02 AM
Thanks guys appreciate the comments and suggestions
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: philr85 on October 23, 2010, 12:16:44 PM
nice wheels randys so ... wow looks good so far cant wait to see those wheels mounted
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 23, 2010, 01:49:39 PM
We are officially a "roller" Got the tires mounted, rims came out with 5 1/2" offset which is close to the 6" I was shooting for without having to cut the center out of the rim and move it 1/2"...(seat is just temp mount for now)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Rolling002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Rolling002.jpg)

Fenders came out well, gives it a nice "tractor" look...Tires fill the void well... I need to get some mirror finish "discs" for the rear hubs to accent the black wheels

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Rolling003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Rolling003.jpg)

Here it is officialy a roller

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Rolling005.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Rolling005.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 23, 2010, 03:33:29 PM
That has a killer look to it Randy. Its gonna be nice when finished. Now get it off the rack and have some one push you around.

ha ha
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: jerb on October 23, 2010, 04:06:04 PM
Looking great Randy!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on October 23, 2010, 06:54:37 PM
LOOKS GREAT FOR SURE!!!!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 25, 2010, 12:12:45 PM
Not much progress to look at, spent a day or so roughing in the fiberglass on the hood...needs more detail work and wet sanding, but I think it's saveable...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_hood-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=hood-1.jpg)

Ordered a Crank Trigger from MWSC and Flywheel from Vogal should be in next week, rings came in so can start motor build anyday...

Ordered cast wheels for wheelie bar, need to conclude on hitch, whether I build an angle iron and all thread unit...or bust out for a shinier premade unit.... so I can build bars to match

Miller suggests jacking up the front end 16" and setting the wheels on ground and building arms from there...Is that a decent setup...? or set them in back and 5" off ground and build arms from there..?

Steering wheel ordered and coming, and a few other things on e-bay, but they are always a gamble till you win..

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: fordman21 on October 25, 2010, 08:09:31 PM
Its coming together nicely now, looking good Randy.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on October 26, 2010, 04:30:51 AM
A lot of clubs have a 5" & 5" rule when locating the wheelie wheels.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 27, 2010, 06:23:28 PM
Wheels came in so I went to fabricating wheelie bars and push bars

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Bumper005.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Bumper005.jpg)

9/16" CR for the bars and a 2" x4" cast wheels

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Bumper009.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Bumper009.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on October 28, 2010, 12:38:58 PM
looks real nice randy should do ya just fine... you should be runnin down the track in no time... well at least when the snow melts next spring unless you are gonna run nqs
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 28, 2010, 03:35:09 PM
Appreciate the vote of confidence, I still see a lot of work to do yet, so I'll probably use most every bit of winter to get this ready to pull...

Lotta stuff I could "buy and bolt on" but I'm enjoying the DIY aspect almost as much as looking forward to an actual pull

While I still had it up on the table, I mounted an extendable forward bar...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Bumper011.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Bumper011.jpg)

Not sure on belly weight bar yet, or mount for front bar, as my iron weight set has the "big hole" in the plates...not sure I want to set up to use them...?? Whats up with the metal boxes I see ammo boxes belly boxes etc... what kind of weight do you put in those...? Will have to ponder on that for awhile, see what kind of weight I can accumulate...

In the mean time, one of these showed up in the mail...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Bumper012.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Bumper012.jpg)

Not quite sure how to set one of these up, but I'm sure you guys will point me in the right direction when we get to that point... Actually, I bought the crank trigger cause I didn't want to mess with the adjustable points timing that cam on the cam I got...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_k341002-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=k341002-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 02, 2010, 01:27:42 PM
Got my head in finally, been bidding on e-bay for weeks and hadn't seen one go for less than $75... at which point a guy could go billet... but was able to score at $32...

Now, how much can I shave off of it...? I've heard .050" and .060" as well as .100"

Or should I build the motor first and do a clay squish test, account for valve clearance and cut the rest off..?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 02, 2010, 02:50:20 PM
I was looking the block over, this one was ported before I got it, the intake looks nice and smooth and rounded over, but the opening is 1 3/8"

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_k341001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=k341001.jpg)  
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_k341002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=k341002.jpg)

My carb is 1.2"--- is the port too big...? should I sleeve it down to 1 1/4"

What does the stock opening start at an intake port of a K341 ?

(I'm gonna copy these two questions to the Kohler Motor section...)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 03, 2010, 11:00:16 AM
Flywheel came in, had a ring put on and had Vogel balance it

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Flywheel.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Flywheel.jpg)

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 03, 2010, 04:41:16 PM
Also received exhaust pipe...1 5/8" id x 24" with DEI wrap...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Exhaust-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Exhaust-2.jpg)

Wrap looks to be tight and in good shape but I'm not totally in love with it, is that something I want to keep, or should I pull it off...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: fordman21 on November 03, 2010, 06:04:35 PM
I don't bother with header wrap anymore, especially on something that isn't cramped in an engine compartment, not to mention it just rots the pipe way before its time.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on November 04, 2010, 04:30:22 AM
If you can try to get a header that has been mandrel bent. It will not have the restriction in the bend like one that has been bent in a pipe bender at a muffler shop. The wrap is not necessary unless you are trying to protect some body components or such.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 04, 2010, 07:02:48 AM
This one was advertised as manderal bent, but does look a bit narrow in the bend....might just be picture...I'll pulll the wrap to be sure..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 05, 2010, 04:19:31 PM
Working on the motor this week end, I'll leave all the engine building questions in this engine thread
http://www.heymow.com/index.php?topic=16690.0
and stick with chassis and assembly in this one
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 07, 2010, 10:13:33 AM
Got Steering wheel mounted, and just scored a MWSC 6 pin driver off e-bay

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Driver.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Driver.jpg)    (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_steering002-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=steering002-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 10, 2010, 05:29:39 PM
Got the motor bolted together and ready for a trial fit...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_engine005.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=engine005.jpg)  

But it's a little om the big side...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_engine013.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=engine013.jpg)

Starter should clear frame, but need to clearance for flywheel ring gear

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_engine004.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=engine004.jpg)

Otherside will need a little more cutting...planning on just notching out the top of the frame in areas marked, or will reinforcement be required...?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_engine011.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=engine011.jpg)


Once I get the motor in place, I can fit the hood, but looks like a little cutting will be required around starter and exhaust pipe...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_engine009.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=engine009.jpg)    (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_engine007.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=engine007.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on November 10, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
Randy you gonna fab up some sort of bell housing for the clutch? It seems like bolting it up between the frame rails would stiffen up the chassis too

Lookin great!


Tim johnson
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 10, 2010, 07:35:36 PM
Yes, I have a whole list of brackets and covers and protective scatter shields I'm required to put on to meet the rules

I need to put a head restraint on and cover the "non camshaft side" of the motor, flywheel, clutch, driveshaft and pulleys...

Some 360* and some just top and sides towards spectators...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on November 10, 2010, 07:40:13 PM
Yes, I have a whole list of brackets and covers and protective scatter shields I'm required to put on to meet the rules

I need to put a head restraint on and cover the "non camshaft side" of the motor, flywheel, clutch, driveshaft and pulleys...

Some 360* and some just top and sides towards spectators...

that stuff in itself will reinforce the  chassis around the motor then.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 10, 2010, 07:56:37 PM
Yep, will make it part of chassis reinforcement...

This is where I wish there were more build pics on line or I had spent more time in the pits seeing how other guys have "interpreted" the shielding descriptions..

But I'll read thru the rules again and post pics as I go looking for input as the project develops..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 16, 2010, 01:39:10 PM
Got the motor to fit in had to cut a good bit on the right side frame rail...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_clear002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=clear002.jpg)

So I added reinforcement below the notch, and the flywheel shield will help as well...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_clear001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=clear001.jpg)

Had to chop a bit on the hood to get it to fit around starter and pipe

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_clear005.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=clear005.jpg)

Mounted gas tank low and in front...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_clear008.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=clear008.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on November 16, 2010, 08:38:28 PM
Thats looking very good Randy. Where did you get that fuel tank?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 16, 2010, 08:57:20 PM
E bay, vintage Lauson tank (whatever that means)...

Nice heavy galvinzed metal with lead soldered ends and fittings Clean came from Kansas so no rust.

I thought it was cool..
I just found out Lauson is/was an outboard motor...explains the galv and lead...
Getting close to  fireing it up..needed a place to mount the coil so I added the head tie down and used it as coil mount

I was also timing the engine, so before I cranked the flywheel down tight I was able to get the other side installed between flywheel and block.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_coil001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=coil001.jpg)
Got the motor bolted in ready to wire and fire...Where is a good battery location...? Stock position in the steering tower...? or would there be an advantage to squeezing a gel cell down low in front, behind the gas tank and below the front of hood...? Or would it be better under the seat...?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_coil004.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=coil004.jpg)

I was leaning toward the low in front, but then I'm limited on physical size which also cuts into Cranking Amps...in order to get 300 or better, I'm back up in the tower...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on November 16, 2010, 09:26:43 PM
Stock location is good Randy. I would say put it in the seat box but you don't have one.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on November 17, 2010, 06:27:59 AM
Remember this, you have to be able to slide the motor in horizontally, with a cub style clutch you cannot drop it in vertically and it be there due to the fingers on the clutch. Will the knotch allow you to horizontally slide the motor in? Usually I notice I need at least 1 1/2" of travel to get the motor in easily, could probably use a little less, but the engine gets heavy when trying to pin point it in the frame! lol.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 17, 2010, 08:22:06 AM
Good point...! I hadn't considered the clutch in the installation... Another good reason "not" to put the battery up front...!

I did move the rear axle back about 1 1/2" and will have to use a longer coupler to make up the difference..

Would I be able to pull the coupler pin and just slide the clutch and shaft "back" the 1 1/2" to fit the motor when I R&R ?? Then I wouldn't have to cut such a large notch out of the frame.??? Is there enough "give" in the linkage to do that..?

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on November 17, 2010, 11:18:39 AM
When you put the carrier bearing on the drive shaft, usually you will place it as far forward as possible for rigidity and to put a lock collar on it to keep the shaft from creeping backwards. This and the clutch arm would probably keep you from being able to do that, also if you did it that way then you will have the chore of trying to get the shaft to go forward in the bearing.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on November 17, 2010, 09:31:30 PM
i would use a very good battery if i were u! cause u will want the power to run your fuel pumps and fans!!! i got a 230 cranking amps on my 12 stock and i can barely go all day with that thing!!! i need a 320 cranking amps!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 18, 2010, 08:28:52 AM
Yes, rather than play with the small size gel cell, I went with the HD version of the standard battery...

365 CCA should turn 'er over with voltage to spare for pump and sparker...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_wired001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=wired001.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 19, 2010, 07:50:29 AM
I have the Vogel Flywheel and MWSC 6 pin driver...I'm in need of a hub to adapt...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Flywheel.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Flywheel.jpg)   (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Driver.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Driver.jpg)

I was told I should get one that "bolts on" rather than relies on pin...looks like MWSC has the only one that has the bolt on option...? or is there another I could look at..? 


Found one....Mid Alantic Performance...good price
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on November 19, 2010, 06:58:46 PM
you can look at lakot racings and mid alantic performance might have one too and kerber only has ones that has a "pin" in it! but i love MWSC clutch hubs tho! lol
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 20, 2010, 12:06:41 PM
Lakota doesn't have pictures, and Vogel is a pin on too...

Tried calling Mid Atlantic, just got a machine will have to try again Monday...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 21, 2010, 11:53:49 AM
Wired up the switches with 2 on-off switches for fuel pump and coil ignition and third push button for starter..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_wired003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=wired003.jpg)

Thinking of adding a 4th "Master positive disconnect" (either key or tether) to protect from leaving pump on or accidental starter pushing...

Will be hooking up a "ground disconnect" breakaway kill switch in back, which does the same thing, so not sure if I need both...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on November 21, 2010, 05:42:14 PM
Yes Randy be sure to run a ground to use for your breakaway kill switch. It is not good when you get ran up on with the sled with a hot wire at the rear of tractor. We had one in our club break some drivline parts and the sled rear ended him, shorted the wires to ground and almost burnt it to the ground.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 23, 2010, 01:56:56 AM
On the Hitch in the rear...

In the process of designing/buying/building one... I noticed a guy on e-bay had three up for sale with various "lengths from tranny to hitchpoint"...

From 1" behind tranny plate (double threaded rod hitch in center).. to 3" behind plate (large threaded  rod with loop) to 4 3/4" behind tranny plate (large rod extended loop)

Is there any advantage to any of these hitch point locations...? is closer to tranny better or leverage from further out better...?

Rules say hitch point must be: "Minimum of 6" from hook point to center of rear tire" but nothing about maximum other than nothing can not stick out past "push bar" which is minimum 5" maximum 10" from rear of tire (11"to 16" from center)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 24, 2010, 08:00:22 AM
My gut tells me setting draw point closer to tranny/axle would be better than extended out...

With the rake I have and setting hitch point at 13" at rest ...when the tractor lifts a bit in front, the extended hitch point would "drop" in the rear...closer to axle less drop...

Unless there is some reason that "leverage" would be desireable (??) I will build mine close to the tranny plate...   
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 24, 2010, 10:09:25 AM
Got my weights in.. lead ingots 22# a piece

I'll probably remold a couple into smaller plates for more adjustability in shifting weight around...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_lead.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=lead.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on November 24, 2010, 06:04:50 PM
Yes the hitch point should be as close as possible to the axle center as rules allow
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on November 24, 2010, 06:48:54 PM
maybe you should try one of those hooker's hitches they make!!! they make one that is really close to the axle!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 24, 2010, 09:18:22 PM
I like the look of the hooker hitch for the price...but It also sets the hitch point 3"+ in the back...

I'll probably make my own to start...then a nice aluminum piece down the road as I go to second level upgrades...

Reformatted my lead weight to 5 and 10 pounders be easier to fine tune that just the 22#s I had..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_lead002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=lead002.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on November 24, 2010, 09:38:17 PM
what did you use for a mold for the weights
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 24, 2010, 09:42:19 PM
I found a 5" slip ring baking pan at the hdwr store
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 27, 2010, 07:27:45 PM
Reset the seat and fenders with solid mount (was just tacked up prior)

Added breakaway "ground" switch using a 20 amp plug... Some circle racers may wonder why I don't just use a pull off tether like on the racers... On this puller I'm running the full ground cable thru the kill switch and it needs to hold up to starter amperage as well as fuel pump and ignition.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_seat-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=seat-1.jpg)

Speaking of pull off plug, what do I need on my end to hook up..? Will just this ring do, or do I need a 4' cable attached...??

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_plug.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=plug.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on November 28, 2010, 11:36:20 AM
The ring should work. I use the same plug setup with a 2 inch key ring from the hardware store
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on November 30, 2010, 03:15:42 PM
Been trying for a week now, Mid Atlantic seems to be shut down at the present due to family/personal issues, so I ordered hub and coupler from MWSC today.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 02, 2010, 10:08:46 AM
Looking at throttle assemblys... I see MWSC and Kerber sell the same unit, didn't see one at Lakota or Vogel, is here a decent "plan" or layout or pics available of DIY units or is the MFG stuff prefered they're only $36-$37 with the cable might be hard to duplicate for less..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 02, 2010, 07:38:55 PM
There's a nice one that the maker of the Hooker Hitch sells. A lot nicer than the others and the cable is hidden.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 02, 2010, 08:52:44 PM
Looked it up at GiterDunn website http://giterdunn.com/id8.html

That's exactly what I've been thinking of a "bar" pedal like the clutch rather than a whole flat plate pedal setup..

Only fits wide frame and spread frame, but theres enough info and pics on the site for me to copy and adapt a similar set up for my narrow frame

Thanks Dennis, that is perfect...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on December 02, 2010, 09:15:03 PM
That throttle pedal is pretty sporty. Its a good design. Look like it would work well. Probably a good one to pattern one after. I'm looking foreward to seeing it come to life.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 02, 2010, 09:32:03 PM
Yep got a 36" smooth sliding motorcycle clutch cable which I held up to the frame and motor should be just the ticket..

I knew the trick was going to be in the pivot points and "leverage" to get useable throw in the right direction and the pics just made it all clear...

Gonna start on it tomorrow
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on December 02, 2010, 09:38:48 PM
I may end up redoing mine. It's one of the first things that I did. I'm not terribly confident it's going to work well. I guess time will tell.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 03, 2010, 11:49:02 AM
Got my hub and coupler from MWSC...a couple bucks more than others, but they really have good service and are quick to ship. That's important, at least to me, I can't stand waiting for parts with unknown ship dates or getting told "it's coming" and then not see it for weeks or worse...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_hub.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=hub.jpg)

Now I can set up driveshaft, clutch and get a layout for a DS carrier bearing..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 04, 2010, 06:47:14 PM
Motor is down for some upgrades, so I took some time to finish the mechanicals...

I had moved the rear transaxle back an inch and a half to lengthen wheelbase so I needed a longer coupler to hook up the driveshaft...This 3" hardened coupler from MWSC was just the ticket...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_clutch007.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=clutch007.jpg)

Got the clutch hub adaptor and driver on motor and set in place in the frame...I did need the extra inch or so to slide the driver into clutch disc and pilot bearing, so glad I widened out the slot. I then could hook up clutch/brake linkage to pedal...have good clutch/brake action, but will need to be running for final adjustments...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_clutch006.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=clutch006.jpg)

Haveing the clutch pedal in place gave me a layout to match with the foot throttle/"deadman" lever (an adaptation of the Hooker Throttle) I have 4" of pedal travel with 1" of cable travel and a nice clean setup...will need to fab carb side linkage once motor is complete and ready to run.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_clutch008.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=clutch008.jpg)

I believe I am ready to strip 'er down, do the the final body work on the hood and paint the beast... which should take up some time while I wait for a few motor parts...



Now that I think of it I still have to fab up the safety shields, covers and brackets yet...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on December 04, 2010, 07:02:16 PM
humm word of advise of past experience!!! i seen that the picture you had the clutch arm held by a pin!!!! i would mput a grade 8 bolt on there!!!! i done that once and the pin came out due to viberation and i lost the clutch!!!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 04, 2010, 07:32:24 PM
Good eye, good call... actually I didn't have the correct length 3/8" bolt in the shop and I didn't want to drive alll the way in to town for one part, so I made up the pin and clip...

When I do final assembly I'll have new grade 5 or 8 bolt with nylock nut on there as well as lock washers on all other critical fastening points
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 05, 2010, 01:00:47 PM
Here's the pic from the back side of the throttle assembly...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_throttle001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=throttle001.jpg)    (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_throttle003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=throttle003.jpg)

I know it's not all pretty and shiney aluminum or unobtanium or whatnot, but I'm a welder not a machineist...and it works just fine thank you...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on December 05, 2010, 01:19:37 PM
Looks good! And solid! Should never have an issue with that setup.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 10, 2010, 05:53:40 PM
Had the machine shop roll this flywheel scattershield for me, just picked it up tonight, will get it fit and installed tomorrow.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_shield002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=shield002.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 10, 2010, 06:11:36 PM
For your throttle on your carb Randy I always use a bellcrank so the cable comes up fromt he bottom. Keeps it out of the way. Cable pulls down and throttle pulls left to right. I made a 1/4 thick spacer with the bell crank mount built in. It goes between carb and carb spacer. Just an idea I thought I would share.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 10, 2010, 06:21:30 PM
You happen to have any pictures of the setup...?

I don't have a carb spacer yet, but I am allowed 1"...

Is there a worthwhile improvement with a spacer that short...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 10, 2010, 06:29:18 PM
The spacer keeps carb cooler. Dont know about hp gains. I dont have a picture of it either. If you made a spacer from 1/4 thick aluminum it would have an ear on the left side of spacer looking at carb from left side of tractor. Then an L shaped bracket that pivots on spacer ear. I like using 10-32 machine screws and wiring eyelets for linkage. I will dig for a pic but I dont think I have one.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 11, 2010, 04:03:07 PM
Worked on the flywheel scattersheild made clearance for starter and head tie down

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_shield003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=shield003.jpg)

Rule reads: All flywheel shielding: 1/8" steel or 3/16" aluminum, full width of flywheel or more, 360*, installed within 1/2" of stock tin shielding and to be fastened to the frame or engine block...and :Clutches must be covered 360� with 1/8" steel or 3/16" aluminum. (except Stock)
 I think I got that, but what about the clutch end of the cover, (where yo can see the clutch) should that be closed off..?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_shield004.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=shield004.jpg)


The rule that gets me (and I should probably check with the WGTP tech) is:3. All cast iron or aluminum Kohler, Wisc, etc. type engines that have been modified for high performance are to have scatter shields opposite the camshaft side of the engine. Diesels - must have full metal shields to cover engine area.

                a.  Shielding must be minimum 1/16" steel or .090" aluminum.

                b.  Shielding must cover full width and height of engine block.

                c.  Shield must be attached to the chassis/hood in a secure manner at both top and bottom.


Not sure what I can do there (if I have to) because starter and bracket cover 3/4 of non cam side... Do other groups require shields on the side of block...?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_shield008.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=shield008.jpg)


Got engine side of throttle cable hooked up, cable length played a part, but I ran the cable straight to the throttle linkage from front back, rather than a bell crank...works well, gives me 2 1/2" pedal travel for idle to WOT feels "bout right"...

Not thrilled with cable clamp, will have to come up with something different for final install

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_shield007.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=shield007.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on December 11, 2010, 06:14:15 PM
tsc has some little u shaped cable clamps like little exhaust clamps... would work well i have used them and havent had any troubles and advance auto or autozone has little cable clamps in the "help" section that have two screws that clamp the cable between them in a little brass housing that will work just fine on the carb. dad did it for years dont know if i ever posted this or not but here is a picture of our last tractor.
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/chadc_2008/Tractors/th_0109000956.jpg) (http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/chadc_2008/Tractors/?action=view&current=0109000956.jpg)
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/chadc_2008/Tractors/th_0109001231.jpg) (http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/chadc_2008/Tractors/?action=view&current=0109001231.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 12, 2010, 05:50:51 AM
Nice looking machines....

The upper one shows the "non cam side" cover I was talking about, looks good here, but I have a starter haning out the side on mine
This is close to what I have looks like a stock starter behind sheild , but the direction I think I need to go..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Kelly_Vis-ScrapIron.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Kelly_Vis-ScrapIron.jpg)
But with the hood on room is even more limited... may have to go "behind" starter against block itself...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_clear005.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=clear005.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on December 12, 2010, 09:02:43 AM
there was a guy in our club and he made a pretty slick idea with a sheet of steel and 2 all thread rods! the all thread rods went in the block where the 2 holes for the starter to bolt on! and he screwed it in the block and put a nut on it to hold the starter and slide the steel onto the all thread rod and tighten them down with nuts!

http://www.commonwealthpullers.org/10.9.10%20ACP%201272.jpg  here is the link of his tractor with the sheild! not much but enough to get a idea
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 13, 2010, 04:36:47 PM
OK, I think I got it...kinda ugly, but meets the rule specs, .090" aluminum, full side of the engine...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_sheild002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=sheild002.jpg)

Any quick and easy tips to "polish" that piece, or should I just buff and paint to match the hood...?


Also made up a piece for under the frame so I have a complete 360* sheilding for clutch and flywheel...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_sheild003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=sheild003.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 13, 2010, 07:45:33 PM
320 grit on a da sander. Then 180. Then red rough or super duty rubbing compound on a buffing wheel.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 13, 2010, 07:55:04 PM
320 grit on a da sander. Then 180...

You mean that the other way round right..?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 13, 2010, 08:16:21 PM
yup.......cant be right all the time.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: George Herrin on December 13, 2010, 08:21:50 PM
The finer you go on paper the brighter the shine...I.E. 280-320-400-500-600-1000-1200 red polish-white polish-and finally mother aluminum poish paste. Will look like a mirror... And the finer you go the longer you sand it. Wet sanding works best for me. wash good with soapy water before polishing and before mothers paste.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on December 13, 2010, 10:19:45 PM
Randy, I'm curious, about how much weight has all of the shields added?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 13, 2010, 11:19:03 PM
The finer you go on paper the brighter the shine...I.E. 280-320-400-500-600-1000-1200 red polish-white polish-and finally mother aluminum poish paste. Will look like a mirror... And the finer you go the longer you sand it. Wet sanding works best for me. wash good with soapy water before polishing and before mothers paste.

So much for "quick and easy"....LOL

Randy, I'm curious, about how much weight has all of the shields added?

I have to strip it down to get the motor out, so I'll weigh them up then. I'm guessing 8#-10# between the three ??
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 14, 2010, 11:40:09 AM
Randy, I'm curious, about how much weight has all of the shields added?

6 1/2#(top), 2 1/2#(bottom) and 1# (motor) so 10# total on shields...

3/16" aluminum may have saved some weight on the flywheel shroud, but I don't have aluminum welding capability so went with 1/8" steel...

Not much weight there compared to adding 30# flywheel or 20# starter... But I did pull off 40# on the front clip and another 25# or so on the front axle.... so we'll see where we end up...

Is it worth buying 4 bathroom scales to weigh, or just load it up and take it to a truck scale or recycling/dump scale..?

Next up is belly bar for weight and phase one hitch...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: George Herrin on December 14, 2010, 12:00:08 PM
Quote
So much for "quick and easy"....LOL

That wiill give you some idea to how labor intense the polishing is on some of the finer things done. That anoter reason purty cost more. LOL
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on December 14, 2010, 11:18:59 PM
OK, I think I got it...kinda ugly, but meets the rule specs, .090" aluminum, full side of the engine...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_sheild002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=sheild002.jpg)

Any quick and easy tips to "polish" that piece, or should I just buff and paint to match the hood...?


It's a long winter Randy shine that thing up, it will look great!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 15, 2010, 08:28:31 AM
I suppose that will make a nice "indoor" project when it's too cold to go out and fire up the shop...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on December 15, 2010, 10:38:39 AM
I suppose that will make a nice "indoor" project when it's too cold to go out and fire up the shop...

By the looks of the weather forecast that could br sooner than later
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 15, 2010, 11:13:40 AM
Randy I take mine to the local feed scale and wiegh it with no weights and my self. Then split up the extra needed for the class. I start at 70-30 front to back or belly and go from there. Take notes when pulling about track condition and where your wieghts are.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 18, 2010, 08:09:23 AM
Well been polishing on this thing for a couple days now, went from scotch bright, to 00 steelwool to 180, 220 and 400 wet sanding getting ready to attack with 600, not looking any shiney'er...yet

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_cover001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=cover001.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 25, 2010, 05:27:23 PM
Got a cool Chrome plated Fire Extinguisher for Christmas, need one to meet club rules...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_gift.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=gift.jpg)



Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: George Herrin on December 25, 2010, 05:34:30 PM
TAkes lots a elbow grease Randy the finer you go the longer you spend on it. End result is well worth it.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 25, 2010, 05:39:24 PM
Yep, I can see that, when I get back from vacation I plan on giving er a couple more grades of paper and then hit the buffing wheel...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: George Herrin on December 25, 2010, 05:46:04 PM
Yup your getting close.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 29, 2010, 03:48:32 PM
Getting shiny'er...

Not quite chrome, but better than the used piece of sheet alum it was...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_sheild002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=sheild002.jpg)     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_cover001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=cover001.jpg)     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_cover010.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=cover010.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on December 30, 2010, 07:45:40 PM
lookin good randy what color paint are you thinkin? i think a candy apple red or tangerine... might as well make the paint flashy... are you planning on running nqs maybe next winter or something? see how you like it this summer?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 30, 2010, 08:27:03 PM
I was thinking yellow and white, not Cub yellow, but a bright hot Corvette yellow frame with a Pearl White hood..

But a Candy Tangerine...hmmm ?? I'll have to look into that..

Plan is local (state) events for the summer, make sure I'm competitive... and then If things go well...get legal (alcohol/carb size, maybe tires) for NQS and try a few just cause I like traveling..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 30, 2010, 08:50:19 PM
Chads right, cant go wrong with any color candy.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on December 30, 2010, 09:52:19 PM
hmmm hot rod rellow and pearl white? that would be good maybe mix a little pearl in the yellow too? hmmm... that would be neat!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 30, 2010, 10:19:04 PM
Randy you could ghost the cub cadet logo into the hood. Like ghost flames. Just throwing that out there since you want to use some pearl or candy.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Rooster on December 31, 2010, 12:19:29 AM
Getting shiny'er...

Not quite chrome, but better than the used piece of sheet alum it was...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_sheild002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=sheild002.jpg)     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_cover001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=cover001.jpg)     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_cover010.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=cover010.jpg)
Thats probably as best you are going to get without some rouge and a wheel.
Polishing metal basically blends the peaks into the valleys, with out some amount of heat it isn't going to happen!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 31, 2010, 08:47:45 AM
Thats probably as best you are going to get without some rouge and a wheel.
Polishing metal basically blends the peaks into the valleys, with out some amount of heat it isn't going to happen!

So I do want it to get hot...??

I bought rouge (red) and wheel, but only went over it lightly cause it was starting to melt the rouge onto the metal and I had to stop and "wash" it off cause it wasn't "rubbing off" anymore...

So I need to polish more "aggressively"...?? and do I go heavy on the rouge or light and clean on the wheel..?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Robert Sparbel on December 31, 2010, 10:38:08 AM
Randy,

Back when I used to work on street rods for a living we used a product from the Mothers company, can't remember what it was called but it came in a foil pack and was a cloth type product that almost looked like pink cotton candy, I would tear just a little piece off and could take a 1960's aluminum mag and shine it so you could see yourself. It took more elbow grease than product with that stuff.

If you have anyone around you that carries Mothers it might be worth asking them if that product is still around.

By the way, tractor is looking good!

Later,
Robert
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 31, 2010, 01:08:39 PM
White rouge, that helped...I think that's as far as I can go...

Not much I can do about the pits without getting too thin for the sheild rules..maybe I can clean the rouge out with a toothbrush

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_cover012.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=cover012.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on December 31, 2010, 01:25:23 PM
I HAVE 1 QUESTION. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PULL AN SLED WHEN YOU CAN GO AS FAST AS YOU WANT? :omg:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 31, 2010, 02:24:20 PM
Chrome and shine dont make it pull Randy. But it does make it "look" good
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Jeff Digou (Pitguy) on December 31, 2010, 02:26:30 PM
I HAVE 1 QUESTION. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PULL AN SLED WHEN YOU CAN GO AS FAST AS YOU WANT? :omg:

I second that :)    You could build a IMOW  and be safe :)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on December 31, 2010, 08:32:32 PM
I HAVE 1 QUESTION. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PULL AN SLED WHEN YOU CAN GO AS FAST AS YOU WANT? :omg:

I do want to go fast, but I just can't see well anymore... I'm loosing my eyesite and the bumps on the track come up too quick...

Least this way I can still build a flathead motor that'll push 40 hp with gobs of torque and feel the wheels spinning neath my butt.. :3gears:
And did I mention pulling a wheelie the length of the track...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 01, 2011, 06:44:36 PM
Finished the weight bars on front and belly, now I can strip er down and do finish sanding in prep for paint...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_weight001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=weight001.jpg)     (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_weight002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=weight002.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 01, 2011, 08:09:02 PM
Randy on your wieghts make sure you have room to put all or close to all of your wieght on the belly or rear in case you get on a really loose track. Some tracks I pull on we run 100lbs out front. Other tracks I take the front rack completly off of the tractor an hang it all on the belly rack. In my case its 250lbs. Just some advise to you.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 01, 2011, 11:00:35 PM
Dang, and I just cut 6" off the belly bar thinking it didn't need to be that wide....

May have to look into a third mount under the axle or maybe a "box" for extra plates...

I haven't weighed the total package yet, so stilll not sure how much i have to play with but I do have some 20#ers not shown that should fit on the Belly... I'll have to do some more "placement" options tomorrow to see what I can hang...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 03, 2011, 09:46:31 AM
How important is a shifter rod "lock" to keep shifter from jumping out of gear...?

I've seen a few and a few without, I haven't built one yet and started pulling machine apart for paint, should I mock one up or is that an "add on" later if I need it...?
 
I can get 90# for sure and maybe 100# on the belly bar (depending on how I "pin" it) out of the 120# I have available...

From eariler discussion didn't think I would be able to add more than that...will see once I get it back together and weigh the package...

 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 03, 2011, 10:46:41 AM
You will need one Randy. It can be an after paint thing too. OR you can do it now.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on January 03, 2011, 11:15:04 AM
Yes you will need a shifter lock. Doesn't need to be fancy, just something to hold it in the gear you select.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Rooster on January 03, 2011, 11:52:42 AM
So I do want it to get hot...??
I bought rouge (red) and wheel, but only went over it lightly cause it was starting to melt the rouge onto the metal and I had to stop and "wash" it off cause it wasn't "rubbing off" anymore...
So I need to polish more "aggressively"...?? and do I go heavy on the rouge or light and clean on the wheel..?
Not hot, but good and warm. When I worked at pro charger they would polish billet parts and those got very warm!

In the Marines we used a wadding polish called Never Dull. With enough rubbing it will make anything shine. It is what the Navy uses as well to polish all the brass on ships. You can get it at auto parts stores or Wal-Mart carries it in the boating section. I used to sit and polish small parts while watching TV...makes for some sore fore arms, lol.
In Marine Barracks even the galvanized trash cans look like chrome......
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: turftracracer19 on January 03, 2011, 07:22:54 PM
never dull works very well, it'll take off surface rust no problem just takes time
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on January 03, 2011, 08:08:24 PM
I HEARD THAT A MOMAS SPIT WAS BETTER THAN 409. IT WOULD TAKE RUST OFF OF A CHROME BUMPER. :badgrin: :woo:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 04, 2011, 09:28:17 AM
OK, GM White Diamond Metalic Pearl for the hood with Mazda Sunburst Yellow with GM pearl for the frame and fenders...Dupont Super Gloss over it all...

And basic gloss black for the rear rims, motor, transaxle, and steering components...(should make aluminum hitch stand out) I think I'm going with the Hooker "Pro Hitch" if they are NQS legal... http://giterdunn.com/id8.html PHO101
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on January 04, 2011, 10:14:20 AM
should be legal look similar to the ones we used to get from stahl... his had 2 steel bars that went up and down but i say if they let home made hitches go then that would pass tech with flying colors...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on January 04, 2011, 05:08:45 PM
that was the hitch that i was talking about a couple post ago about youb getting a hooker hitches... lol
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 04, 2011, 05:31:59 PM
I remember, this one seems to be the closest to axle limit I've seen, waiting to get confirmation on NQS approval..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on January 04, 2011, 05:47:59 PM
yes i know! if it aint you can always modifiy it to pass the NQS rules! or cheaper for you to make one! my friend did and he had it welded up made of steel but dont know if its NQS legal.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Rooster on January 04, 2011, 06:25:00 PM
Those are some good looking hitches, nice machine work.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on January 06, 2011, 12:12:00 AM
How important is a shifter rod "lock" to keep shifter from jumping out of gear...?

I've seen a few and a few without, I haven't built one yet and started pulling machine apart for paint, should I mock one up or is that an "add on" later if I need it...?
 

I never really thought of that I think I will just machine a "collar" that will slide over my shifter with a wing nut and a pin to go through a hole in the shifter pattern plate should work i guess how is your shifter set up Randy?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 06, 2011, 03:46:55 AM
I have an "H" pattern 3 speed with reverse... 1st and reverse are on one side and my two "pulling gears" are on the other

Need to make an open "C" piece that will hold 3rd "up" and/or 2nd "down" so they don't jump out of gear under pressure..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on January 07, 2011, 11:43:54 AM
randy its pretty easy dont over complicate it just use a rollcage pin from a race car place like jegs... they are in the saftey gear section. make your c and drill 4 holes... i have seen all kinds of crazy stuff to hold tractors in gear... think smart not hard
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on January 07, 2011, 03:07:04 PM
lol heck one time i saw a tractor shifter was held by a air lock hydralic! i thought he was crazy! he had to look cool! he has to put ait in his tanks and pick a gear and flip the lever whatever driction it wanted to go!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 08, 2011, 07:50:27 AM
Pearl over white...looks nice...

Pearl over Yellow...looks like Baby poop...

However, Sunburst Yellow "over" Pearl....Gives the base an irridessence and sparkle and brightens the "glow factor" of the Yellow...I think we have a winner there...

Should have it painted up this weekend...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: wayne shaffer on January 09, 2011, 08:54:26 AM
If you live near a truckstop or a chrome shop that has a polish service, they should be able to make it look like a mirror, if your not happy with the way it looks.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 09, 2011, 09:25:13 AM
Quote
If you live near a truckstop or a chrome shop that has a polish service...

I'm still looking for a feed store to weigh my tractor...LOL....

I live up in the northwoods....nothing here but pine trees and sand...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: badboysracing on January 09, 2011, 07:10:30 PM
Randy is there a junk yard close to you. Most junk yard's also have a higher poundage scale that has to be checked by the dot so if there are any close i'd go there to get it weighed.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 09, 2011, 08:00:55 PM
There is an auto recycler/metal recycler in the neighborhood, I think all they have is a "drive over" scale which may be too big (not sensitive enough) for my tractor... I'll have to stop in and ask if they have a "pallet scale" with a 4'x4' or 4'x6' table to weigh my machine on.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on January 09, 2011, 08:28:22 PM
Randy you could have them weigh your rig with the tractor and then without it. Should come out pretty close
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 10, 2011, 07:13:17 PM
Motor is at machine shop getting bored out, tractor is at body shop getting paint...

And I'm going crazy with nothing to work on...

Buddy sent me a picture of hood...looking Pearl...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_pearl.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=pearl.jpg)

It is white, phone picture picked up color..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on January 11, 2011, 10:33:58 AM
cant wait to see it all shined up randy i like the pearl white!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 14, 2011, 05:57:02 PM
Pearl under Yellow ('nother crappy phone photo, but nice in person)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Cub.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Cub.jpg)

I told him I would have hit it with two cans of Rustoluem and called'r done by now...

That's why he's painting this one and not me....
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on January 14, 2011, 10:34:13 PM
The colors look good Randy, nice choice!

Tim
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 14, 2011, 10:40:32 PM
Thanks, took the hood over to the Vinyl guy to layout lettering on side...

Showed me some subtle lite outline "Flames" patterns I may want to try on the hood and fenders..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 15, 2011, 12:06:54 PM
Thats going to be nice when done Randy. Have you got your power plant back together yet.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 15, 2011, 12:54:01 PM
No...block is still at Machine shop... :noplease:
I call them every couple days...just to bug them....
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 15, 2011, 04:54:52 PM
Picked up my parts and made a little progress today...

Got the new Hooker Hitch installed

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Assembly003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Assembly003.jpg)

And a little "shine" for my steel wheels...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Assembly002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Assembly002.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 15, 2011, 05:51:07 PM
Randy how is the fit and finish on the hitch. It looks killer. I was wanting to get the hitch that is bigger to close up some area on the rear of my tractor. It looks great with the sear fenders. They are a one size fits all pretty much. I used the same fenders when I built my seat pan. I like the Chrome centers. You might try replacing the lug bolts with 2 inch long grade 8 bolts from the back side of the wheel flange. Then use long acorn lug nuts.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 15, 2011, 06:40:02 PM
Yeah, those lug "bolts" were a PITA trying to line up the hub, the lug the wheel and the disc all at the same time...

Hitch is nice, has a "cup" like piece bolted on the inside for the indentation put together well and the little "slider/hitch bar" on the outside locks right in... I washed the oil off it and gave it a coat of clear before I put it on...

Only rough thing is the outer "edge"...looks CNC cut, but hey left it raw no grind, sand or polish there, I probably should have masked it off and painted that edge black to match axle.

Whole thing weighs 17#, but they do make some bigger plates....
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on January 15, 2011, 09:33:30 PM
so the hitch is NQS legal then?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 16, 2011, 07:20:58 AM
According to the mfg they are legal, he haddn't up dated his site to say so, but the hitches have been out for awhile...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on January 16, 2011, 10:34:43 AM
ok i see... i thought you might had contacted NQS about that hitch!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 16, 2011, 12:48:22 PM
For what it cost it better be legal..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 17, 2011, 06:38:13 PM
Well, bout as far as I can go for now...other than shift "lock" for pulling gears and pick a cool shift handle...either Pewter Skull with glowing eyes or a grenade...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Yellow2002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Yellow2002.jpg)

Hood at Vinyl guy and motor at machine shop...(gonna have to call again tomorrow  :badgrin: )
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: tractorracer12 on January 17, 2011, 06:51:54 PM
looks great!!!   A set of Simulated bead locks would look awesome on the back of that.Weld a steel ring to the inside dish of your rim by the bead, drill and tap it and then bolt a aluminum disk on it a half inch bigger than the O.D. of you rim.  Just and Idea to give you some work to do. lol
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: tractorracer12 on January 17, 2011, 07:37:43 PM
 Something kinda like this but larger. This is a wheel that i did for work. Sorry I haven't used photo bucket forever and its not the same it used to be. But i think you can get the Idea.

 http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w3/tractorracer12/th_wheel.jpg
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 17, 2011, 07:59:36 PM
Looks very nice Randy.

pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop.

I can hear it already. Get some time on the engine and you'll love the way an altered sounds.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on January 18, 2011, 03:49:48 PM
engine still aint back from the shop?  :bash: it only takes under a week for me!  :pffftt:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on January 19, 2011, 10:19:22 PM
Hows yer hood comin out and dang looks like ya need to put a fire under the machine shop guys
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 20, 2011, 05:13:05 PM
Vinyl guy printed up some proofs for me to look at, do that Friday. I called Machine shop again, they got hung up on the bore size had to double check with Vogel to confirm hopefully I'll see it tomorrow or Sat.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 25, 2011, 02:36:53 PM
Vinyl is starting to come out, Flames on hood turned into Phoenix with firey wings draping over lettering.. looked good, cept the birds head looked like a chicken with a spikey mohawk...so that needs a little work yet...

Did get the flames for the fenders cut and applied though and rest should look as nice..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_flames001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=flames001.jpg)

And I think I'm going with the grenade for shifter handle...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on January 25, 2011, 02:50:39 PM
SWEEEEEEET!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 25, 2011, 04:17:51 PM
I think I came up with a useable shift lock, without pins and extra parts...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_shiftlock002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=shiftlock002.jpg)    (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_shiftlock001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=shiftlock001.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on January 25, 2011, 05:13:58 PM
very nice sir very nice... glad to see all this ambition... tractor pulling numbers have been way down... but there are some of us that cant walk away forever
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on January 25, 2011, 05:54:15 PM
That looks great Randy, excellent work so far
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 25, 2011, 07:39:09 PM
Approved the final on the hood flame/pheonix/ layout

Should be able to pick up the finished hood tomorrow...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_phoenix1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=phoenix1.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 25, 2011, 08:53:22 PM
Got a call said it was done, I couldn't wait till tomorrow, so I went and picked it up...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_hood002-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=hood002-1.jpg)        (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_hood005.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=hood005.jpg)       (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_hood003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=hood003.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on January 25, 2011, 09:22:34 PM
very nice tractor randy!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 25, 2011, 09:46:53 PM
I'm likeing it... now I just have to get a motor together for it...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: George Herrin on January 26, 2011, 12:31:56 AM
VERY nice Randy
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on January 26, 2011, 06:18:05 AM
Sweet looking ride! Dig the name!! lol...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 26, 2011, 08:12:42 AM
I'm a Grandpa...I can do that now..... :badgrin:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on January 26, 2011, 09:12:45 AM
YOU GO GRAMPS. :lol:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 26, 2011, 07:33:19 PM
Randy that looks great. Looking forward to some video of a hook.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 26, 2011, 08:07:48 PM
Thanks everybody...

Yep, the colors should show up good on video...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 29, 2011, 02:34:54 PM
Man....I gotta find a new machine shop... :noplease:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on January 29, 2011, 04:30:50 PM
YOU CANT RUSH GOOD. OR THEY ARE THAT BAD? :woo:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on January 29, 2011, 04:38:40 PM
Supposed to be good and they are busy, good shops usually are...

I'm just in to instant gratification and this waiting stuff is really putting a rub on that...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 29, 2011, 04:42:38 PM
Randy my shop takes a while as well. They are THE shop here in town. They build some very high end stuff. Good things come to those who wait. And wait.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on January 29, 2011, 04:44:10 PM
AND MORE WAITING. ;)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 04, 2011, 02:35:44 PM
Ain't America great.... I mean where else could you e-order up a hand gernade and a few days later it shows up in the mail....!!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_hand004.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=hand004.jpg)

Tomorrow fro sure I get my motor back from machine shop....  :roll:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: redline on February 04, 2011, 03:18:31 PM
After you get the sled hooked up, make sure to pull the pin. Then watch peoples reaction.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on February 04, 2011, 08:59:07 PM
Randy where did you get it? I'm looking for an 8 ball or a skull at some point. Kool rides has them but they are kinda pricey there.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 04, 2011, 09:23:50 PM
E-Bay had a couple of them, pretty cool, it's an actual grenade (empty of course) but the rest is for real....had to drill and tap to fit.

Also saw a lot of cool skulls, pewter w/red eyes, etc. when I was looking for this...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on February 04, 2011, 09:27:25 PM
cool didn't pick up on the fact that it was real, all the better!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on February 05, 2011, 06:39:38 PM
there is a billiards shop around here that sells billiard balls trilled and tapped for shifters.. like 5 bucks a piece. a friend of mine has one on just about every piece of equipment he owns :twothumbsup:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 07, 2011, 02:19:00 PM
After much delay and some minor setbacks we finaly have a running machine....

Even had it out in the snow to test the traction... (yes, it will pop a wheelie in the snow)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_running014.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=running014.jpg)

However in the interest of traction, I picked up a carbide wheel , going to see if I can sharpen up the lugs without cutting thru the cordage... wheel says do it on a "mounted tire on the axle"... that seems awkward, wouldn't placing the mounted tire on a sturdy bench work as well..?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_running001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=running001.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 07, 2011, 02:41:44 PM
Randy I use a white paint pen and sit on a 5 gallon bucket with tire on the ground. Do not go any deeper on the double cut of tire. You can nock the leaking edge of lug back to sharpen them but don't go deeper. You'll find out what the tire is made of. Real fast.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 07, 2011, 05:03:36 PM
You "paint" a line on edge...then sharpen face till the line is gone...?

Yep, I'm hoping not to go deeper on the flats or second cuts if I can avoid it...

Thought I'd do the "studs and nuts" on the axles while I have the tires off, I picked up allen bolts for studs and ordered some 1" lug nuts off e-bay...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 07, 2011, 05:39:25 PM
I use the line for a reference only. Don't sharpen until line is gone or you'll eat the tire up quick. Its merely for an eye reference to make the lugs uniform. All it takes is a quick pass on the buisness side of the lug and your golden. Must also remember the carlise's are soft. The sharp edge of a lug wont last long. The tires you have ran me all season on a double cut. They were never sharpend all year.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 08, 2011, 07:20:08 PM
Couple more shots:

With the hood

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_running008.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=running008.jpg)

From the back

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_running011.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=running011.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on February 08, 2011, 07:21:43 PM
VERY NICE BUILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on February 09, 2011, 10:00:07 AM
it does look good randy! has lots of rake though... dad seemed to find the right degree of rake once upon a time and has been using it ever since... all the chassis we built had the same rake and were the same length once he figured out what the chassis worked best at. but that was with the pro and super stock tractor i dont believe the stock altereds quite matter as much since they are slower but you deffinately are starting out with a nice machine... let us know how you do with it! :twothumbsup:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 09, 2011, 11:56:11 AM
I like the look of the rake, but my gut tells me it might be a little steep as well...I looked at your pics from eariler, and rake looks similar, do you have any other shots from the side where we could get a better measurement on rake...?

It is set up so I will still have reasonable rake if/when I upgrade to 2"x10" wheels in the front
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on February 09, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
randy you have a pm
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 10, 2011, 09:56:47 PM
I would run it Randy. You can weight it right to perform as you want it too. Everyones tractor is different. Obviously because there not all built by the same person. Only to remember is to make sure the engine is level when you fill the oil. Being you have the cam cover dipstick and its furthest forward compared to where the rod is. You want the oil to touch the bottom of the rod bdc.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 10, 2011, 10:52:57 PM
Oil level is a concern with the rake... I filled it to the mark when level, then when I dropped it the level went up a good 1/4" ... So I split the difference and added oil, went to 1/8" over the mark at level...maybe an extra 4 oz.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on February 19, 2011, 08:43:38 AM
Usually if you are using a stock stroke crank, and using a stock type or am aftermarket oil pan that is of the "1 1/2 qrt." size then with the 3.25" stroke then you would use 1 1/2 quarts. The contact level would be one inch up on the dipper or just touching the base of the rod body. You are right making it level versus checking it with the frame at a large rake angle will be different. But see how the tractor likes to hook or how it likes to carry the front going down the track then decide on which to check the oil level at. Dont forget to post some videos of your tractor pulling for us when you get them!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 20, 2011, 03:18:22 PM
Quote
Dont forget to post some videos of your tractor pulling for us when you get them!
If I can get someone to hold the camera will do... not sure if Sami is going to be my traveling buddy this year...

Played around a little on the rear axle...

Pulled the "lug bolts" that were stock and added 1 1/2" 7/16"-20 socketheads for studs...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=003.jpg)

Then put the wheels on with 1" stock car racing lug nuts...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_009.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=009.jpg)

While I had the wheels off I ran the tires thru the sharpener, just cleaning up the faces of the lugs..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_008.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=008.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 23, 2011, 06:55:23 PM
I have a rule interpretation question...

On the 5"x5" rule for wheelie wheels, I understand the 5" MAXIMUM from wheel to ground.. (black lines)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Rulebookbumpers.gif) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Rulebookbumpers.gif)

But where is the 5" MINIMUM from rear tire measured to...??
Is it 5" clear between rear wheel and wheelie wheel...?

Or does some portion of wheelie wheel need to be "at least" 5" from rear tire...? (red area)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Wheel.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Wheel.jpg)

My wheelie wheel axle is 5" from rear tire.. is that OK or do I need to refab...??

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_lift003.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=lift003.jpg)

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 23, 2011, 07:50:40 PM
If it matters, at full wheelie" my fronts are only 16" off the ground..

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on February 23, 2011, 10:08:52 PM
Randy my rules show rear of tire to wheelie axle (center) minimum 5"

Tim
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: jerb on February 23, 2011, 10:39:35 PM
machine looks great Randy!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Rooster on February 23, 2011, 10:55:46 PM
If it matters, at full wheelie" my fronts are only 16" off the ground..


Dangit...I want a puller mower that will do a "Full Wheelie"!!!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 24, 2011, 01:06:27 AM
Dangit...I want a puller mower that will do a "Full Wheelie"!!!
I'm telling you Rooster... over here in this crazy parrallel universe...we actually "like" flatheads, even twins...!!!

 :ninja: Join us Rooster...come over to the "dark side"..  :maxevil:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Rooster on February 24, 2011, 04:36:56 AM
Lol...I really want a puller...but not sure they'd like it when I made a left and came back at 'em.... :omg:

Maybe I will make one just for cleanin' out around the coop...I bet they'd pull the heck out of a blade!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 24, 2011, 08:12:36 AM
Quote
F.) All tractors must have safety device to prevent turnovers.
This device is to have wheels or skid plates. Wheels
are to be at least 1” wide and 5” in diameter. Skid plates
to have at least 3 square inches at ground contact point.
Wheels or skid plates must be no less than 5” behind the
rear tires and not more than 5” above the ground. This
device must be able to support the weight of the tractor.
Comment: the tolerance on height is + 1/4” (5 1/4”) and
behind tires - 1/4” (4 3/4”)

I was re-reading NQS rules which are a little more strict and specific than most of the local rules posted...

Looks like I make all the rules other than 1" alcohol carb (which I can change out) and clarification on wheel placement...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 24, 2011, 11:04:23 AM
Dang, now I noticed wheel needs to be 5" x 1" ...mine are 4" x 1 1/2" ...

I thought I saw a 5" Billet wheel advertised somewhere, now I can't find them.. any ideas/suppliers ??
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on February 24, 2011, 11:11:20 AM
Midwest has them, there's a bunch on ebay right now and zach kerber has them.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 24, 2011, 11:16:29 AM
Those are all 6"x 1" ...I was looking at a 5" somewhere that won'tstick too far behind my push bar when I change them out...

This is assuming the wheel "placement" stays the same...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 26, 2011, 09:33:04 AM
Randy my rules show rear of tire to wheelie axle (center) minimum 5"

Tim

Got a responce from some NQS guys they said back of tire to center of wheel as well... so I'm good there..

Also found 5" billet wheels from LMP machine (the guys on e-bay) they have them on their website so I'm gonna order a set.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on March 11, 2011, 01:56:42 PM
Finaly got the tractor to the scale to weigh

Took it to the local waste management/dump/recycle center and ran it over the scale on the trailer off the trailer and with me on it..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_021.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=021.jpg)

Came in at 600# ready to run, 840# with me on it so I have a lot more room to play with weight than I had thought..

I was guessing 700-750 empty, but now I need 110# to hit 950 class and 210# for 1050...

I'm gonna need more moveable weights..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 11, 2011, 09:03:21 PM
That's a little heavier than I thought it would be Randy. I can pull our light S/A at 800lbs and I usually need to add around 50lbs with my tractor. I use 250-300lbs of movable wieght.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on March 11, 2011, 09:28:03 PM
Well it is what it is, I was a little surprized it was under 700 from what we were talking eariler...

Just have to hope it has a decent balance to start so I don't have to go radical with weight on one end or the other.

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 11, 2011, 10:01:00 PM
I think you'll be alright Randy. You can try starting at the 70% on the rear and 30% on the front and see where it goes from there. Just bring a note book with you so you know where your at and what tire pressures you ran with what wieght. I still take one with me to every pull. It has a couple years worth of pulling in it to look over while i'm at the track.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on March 12, 2011, 12:50:30 AM
Yes, this whole "balancing act" has got me intrigued...

Between track condition, and the gear I choose, and tire pressure and the phase of the moon....

It'll be a challange enough to get down the track, and then fine tune the balance to float the tires down the track, working the rears...

I'd like to work a couple "mental scenerio's" out with you for tuning, so I don't look a total newb at my first pull...

For instance, what's the desired result at the end of the run...to spin the tires and "dig in" or to slow and stop and "snub" the motor out...??

And what's the desired "starting" or staging for the start...? From the videos it looks like "wind er up and give 'er" is popular...spinning all the way...?

Or is that all determined by track conditions of the day...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 12, 2011, 02:14:45 AM
You dont want to snuff the engine out. At least in my opinion you dont. What that does is yes you get a good head of steam going but you loose it as the engine rpm comes down and ground spead goes down. The engine gets under its power band and you snuff it. If your in a gear to witch you actually pull the engine down into its power band and it settles in and pulls your run will turn out much better. You want the tractor to go as fast as it can with the rpm in its most power making range for as long as possible. Its all about a high rpm start with maximum whel speed to get the most mowmentum as soon as possible. Remember the sled is easies to pull the first 25ft or so. You want to be up to speed by then or close to it. You want to slip the clutch the most your machine will allow on the start.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on March 12, 2011, 07:50:26 AM
This adds to more of the stuff you will learn over time.  Some tracks you will want to almost snuff the motor (sandy tracks).  If you have too much motor at the end of the track you will blow the tires away.  On good dirt tracks you will not want to do this because traction isn't an issue.  Takeoffs on the line depend on the track and the sled you use.  The sled we use for the NQS series weighs about 7,000 lbs or so.  We can pretty much be off the clutch as fast as we can.  Our clutches are built to slip a little bit so that helps too but usually we are at full speed (14.5-20 mph) about 35-60 ft out.  In the local areas most of your sleds will be in the 8,000+ lb categories so you will need to use more clutch off the line.  Most of it is watching pullers and everyone has their own style of pulling.  Just watch and see what the other pullers do and what works and what doesn't.  There a few ways to do it to get the end result.  The big 3 in pulling are gear, front weight, and where to go on the track. 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on March 12, 2011, 09:42:08 AM
Quote
What that does is yes you get a good head of steam going but you loose it as the engine rpm comes down and ground spead goes down. The engine gets under its power band and you snuff it.

So that would indicate "overgeared" (too high of gear)??

So undergeared would be revving up and geting good hole shot but not building enough speed to carry sled and end up digging in on a short pull..?

This assumes I'm weight balanced and not pulling a wheelie or plowing with the fronts...?

Quote
The big 3 in pulling are gear, front weight, and where to go on the track.

What do you mean by "where to go" on the track, do you mean nice and straight with minimal side to side wasted movement...or better to pick a hard dry line steering out of the ruts..?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 12, 2011, 07:15:41 PM
You want to pick a line on the track that is either working for everyone and making it to the big end of the track or if nothing is working change it up and pick some where no one has went.

Yes if you snuff it you were over geared. If you spin out short of where you think you could have went the track is either going away or you could of had more gear.

The tracks I pull on are for the most part loose. I run the biggest gear I have. Usually just blowing the tires up but looking for big ground speed. I always run real light on the front because I "drive" more than some do with alot of body english.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on March 12, 2011, 07:20:36 PM
squid, its all about seat time and more seat time.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on March 12, 2011, 07:24:40 PM
Yep, but I'm looking for a "what does what" so I can use my seat time effectively...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 12, 2011, 07:52:31 PM
If the tractor is going to the left lean to the left. If the tractor is going right lean to the right. You might even have to move your behind over the fenders in extreme cases. If the front end wont stay down grab the steering wheel and give your whole body a jerk forward to plant the front. If its front heavy take your unused arm and throw it and your top half towards the rear of the tractor to help put some wieght on the rear.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on March 12, 2011, 08:00:10 PM
That part I'm pretty comfortable with (from all the bumpy hillside lawnmowing I've done)

We guessed at the gearing pretty well I think, but we won't know till my first run, would I be better off starting in lower gear (21) and letting 'er rev...or higher gear (23) and let it lug...??



Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 12, 2011, 08:03:56 PM
Put it on a power track and hang it in high gear. You'll find out real quick what your motors made of. Dont be afraid of running it out of motor. You'll need to to learn what you have and what gear to use on what tracks.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on March 12, 2011, 08:43:51 PM
wich brings me back to more seat time. :woo:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on March 13, 2011, 03:35:04 PM
What I meant on where to go on the track takes time because you have to get to know what your motor can/can't do.  So if you're a little under powered compared to the others you'll want to stay in a little bit dryer dirt, if you've got more power you can go to the tacky/wetter dirt where there's more traction.  You don't always have to go straight.  Outside pulling its hard to get a consistent track.  Sometimes you may start on one side, drive to the opposite in the middle, then end up on the side you started.  It'll come over time.  Good luck to you and hope to see you around at some pulls.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 26, 2011, 06:46:30 AM
Getting ready for my first pull, setting up new 1" carb and the crank breaks on me (see engine thread)....

OK so I pull out a back up block get it bored and preped and ready for pull this weekend..

Set motor in frame, and see my driveshaft has snaped as well...probably when the the flywheel was bouncing with broken crank...so now I need a shaft...

No time to order hardened shaft, will a cold rolled steel from the hdwr store get me thru the weekend...or should I just hold out for a hardend 4160 or whatever shaft the big boys sell...??
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on May 26, 2011, 07:17:30 AM
hmmm i would wanna lean towards the hardened
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 26, 2011, 09:41:24 AM
I made one out of cold rolled, will see how it works...

If it snaps again, it may just be a sign I should upgrade the whole clutch system..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 26, 2011, 09:46:40 AM
4140 from the local steel shop works very well.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on May 26, 2011, 12:24:13 PM
Just let it off the line real easy!be easy on your clutch! When you upgrade it with a harden drive shaft. You can go off the line wide open!!!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 26, 2011, 05:48:04 PM
Cold rolled from the hdwr store looked good....

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_027.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=027.jpg)

But lasted about three good revs before it snapped...

I'm taking this as a sign I won't be making the practice pull this weekend...problem with living in small town not alot of steel suppliers to pick from...

I was thnking of ordering 4140 from mcMaster Carr, but may just get the predrilled hardened shaft from Midwest..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 26, 2011, 05:53:15 PM
Randy the 4140 is darn neer bullet proof. Its what we run behind the ole mans 45 cid command roller motor. Not sure how much hp it makes but Im sure its more then your single. He has never had a problem with it for 3 seasons. I use .750 4140 bar for my drive shaft. He uses stock cub diameter. Its easy to work and very true per foot.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 26, 2011, 05:55:23 PM
I saw two listings... one for"41L40", and the other for "4140/4142"...

I assume the latter..?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 26, 2011, 06:18:42 PM
You can also use 1144 stress proof. Its a little tougher to drill but very strong.

Yes the 4140/4142 is correct
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 27, 2011, 03:20:19 PM
I must be a gluton for punishment..

I drove the next county over to pick up another piece of rod for driveshaft, nice piece of cold rolled tighter than hdwr store stuff.. built a shaft and did a few wheelie popping burnouts in drive...

So look like I may make the pull tomorrow after all...

pics and video to come (assumining I can find someone to hold camera)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Rooster on May 27, 2011, 04:38:37 PM
:chris:
:npics:
 :party:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 28, 2011, 06:13:13 AM
Well...got up this morning, and it's raining on me here....

Loaded and ready to go, weather map looks clear/ptly cloudy down there (2 1/2 hrs away) so I'm gonna go for it...

Long as the wind don't shift...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 28, 2011, 06:36:23 PM
OK...well the good news is...I didn't break anything....and got to drive 'er back in the trailer.

I got there a little late, so I only got two hooks before they upped the weight in the sled for the mini-rods, we weighed in @ 950# and went thru a quick safety tech check then out to the track.

Track was nice, sticky clay, had rained the night before so it had some moisture in it.

Bad news is I didn't go too far...maybe 25', I was just way overgeared for the track. Guys were running 18 and 19 tooth and my lowest was 21. I reved up fairly well (had 7500 on the call back) clutch slipped a little on the line, then grabbed wheels came up and as I gained traction it pulled the motor right down and out...(kinda like starting out going uphill in 4th in your car)

I got a short piece of video not real good quality (trying to upload now) but it doesn't show much..

I had a good time, met some new people, got to do some trailer racing and diagnosing and came away with a few suggestions for setting up next time..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: THawley08 on May 28, 2011, 06:52:07 PM
A not so good first run is WAY better than no run at all.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 28, 2011, 07:05:33 PM
Well yeah , I mean I would have loved to do a tire smoking, dirt throwing, full pull... but just getting out there and getting my feet wet was cool

Once I realized I was out of the ballpark on gearing, there wasn't much need for additional runs, although someone suggested trying a 1st gear run but that might have been a bit too low for a fresh motor..

My first lawnmower race was an IMOW... I didn't have a spot on 9:1 ratio and my tires were a size small so I got lapped...but I still had fun.

But the next time out I was ready and won my first feature..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 28, 2011, 11:04:43 PM
There it is, be gentle this was my first time...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_033-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=033-1.mp4)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_032.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=032.mp4)

Open to suggestions/comments...

To me it just sounds like the wrong gear and didn't let the revs up into the power range
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 29, 2011, 07:06:04 AM
Now the question is do I underdrive the what I have.. or add a 3rd or 4th gear...?

I kinda like having reverse...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on May 29, 2011, 07:18:20 AM
You are better off to have 4 forward gears.  That many more to choose from.  If you make a 2 piece driveshaft you can over/underdrive your percentage in approximately 5 minutes or less.  There will always be someone to help push your tractor around at pulls.  I would love to meet and talk with you.  We are coming up to Stahl's (Midwest Super Cub) with our diesel to pull against Julian's 90 cube twin and his electric tractor the 4th of july week.  I will take some pictures of our driveline to try to show you what I mean.  We have an 8 speed setup without changing anything.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on May 29, 2011, 04:58:44 PM
(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z459/drewbur10/2011-05-29_11-00-00_638.jpg)
We just cut a square out of the tunnel and used two 1/4" bolts to hold it down to get to the over/underdrive.

(http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z459/drewbur10/2011-05-29_11-01-09_828.jpg)
This is a pic looking straight up at the tunnel hole.  You can see the two piece shaft.  All held together with 1/4" bolts. 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 30, 2011, 09:31:03 AM
Randy it sounded good, just didnt turn it hard enough at first. Its amazing how different the dirt is in different states. Or that sled is super super heavy. I ran a 26 tooth gear with those tires on our sled and tracks we pull at. And yes 4 gears are better than 2. You could by the forks and two gears slower than you currently have.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on May 30, 2011, 12:42:33 PM
Being it was my first pull with a newly built motor, I'm leaning towards the underdrive setup to drop the two gears I currently run and hopefully, if that gests me in the ball park, I can fine tune with a 3 or 4 speed from there...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 01, 2011, 04:27:46 PM
According to the charts, a 20% underdrive would give me a hair under a 19 tooth and a hair under a 21 tooth combo... running those two gears should give me an idea where to go on a 3 or 4 speed build...

At this point I'm thinking adding an 18 and 19 tooth to the 21 and 23 I already have.. but i may need an 18-21 4 speed....
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 13, 2011, 03:49:18 PM
Got the 20% underdrive today, should be a quick front gear swap, and put my overall ratios in the ball park.. (19 - 21) From there I can decide if I require a lower or higher spread before I pop for the 4 speed conversion...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_601111011.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=601111011.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 16, 2011, 07:31:01 PM
That was pretty quick for a gear swap, slid the coupler back pulled the front plate, slid bull gear out popped pinion out, popped new one in, replace bull gear replace plate and put coupler back on..

Went so fast I forgot to take pictures...

Next pull Saturday different track. We'll see how it does...hopefully I'll get 'er to rev up and hold this time...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 19, 2011, 09:18:17 AM
OK First "official pull" under my belt, didn't win, but I didn't blow up either so it was a good day...

Made it much further down the track than I did at the practice pull, but still not enough...loading video now, should have it up in a few, but "sounds like" I'm laboring along in the lower end of the powerband, and when the weight transfers it just pulls me right down...

I had 6,800 on launch (per recall) and was holding at 5,800 down the track... I was running a 19 tooth gear.

The guys I talked to said they were running 19 to 21 tooth gearing and most pulled further...I went 220', next guy was 228'...top three were 279'-281'

Askin advice here... do I want to go one tooth lower to get rpm up in the 6,200 range and see how it holds there...? or would I be better served changing cam out (higher duration) to get the motor to pull harder in the gear I have...??

Either/both would require a major teardown at this point...or is there something else I should be looking at...?


Here is the video link I posted it in the Video section.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_601111013.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=601111013.mp4)

Never mind the little bit of smoke, Tractor had rolled in trailer and bent/broke the exhaust tube, so I clamped it together with tin can and duct tape to pass tech (upward exhaust)

Tape burnt soon as it got hot.. 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on June 20, 2011, 06:01:15 AM
It sounded real good Randy. Just a little low on hp compared to the others if they went that much farther. Alot bigger camshaft. .340 290@.050 at least. That will get your rpm up in the high 7k or low8k if the porting will allow it. Heavier flywheel or the addition of a steel starter pulley. More rotating mass to keep the engine up in the power band longer. The cam you have is small compared to what is current in the S/A market. RPM increase will make a bigger difference than a gear change at this point. With an rpm increase and the ability to hold it comes hp.


Just my .02
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 20, 2011, 09:47:11 AM
Current cam is .348 269 @.050 so yeah, room for improvement there...

Already running a 30# wheel... (28# + ring gear)

I'd like to see the motor rev a little higher get a little wheelspin going as well so I'm leaning toward the cam too..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on June 20, 2011, 10:27:28 AM
Randy, before you do anything else or spend any more money. I want to see video of your run with the entire hole shot! This is very very important, when the video starts it sounds like the motor has not topped out yet, these classes with lots of restriction you MUST wind them all the way up at the line then very slowly ease out of the clutch!!!!! There may not be anything wrong at all with your engine, just remember to tune this thing a little rich for gas, not too lean for methanol but above anything else you MUST have a strong hole shot. Engines with heavier flywheels don't build power very well when under load. They MUST be in their power band before you load them. I cannot stress this enough, strong hole shot can make up for a few less ponies and smaller b_lls on the other end if the motor is used properly. DON"T spend any more money or change anything until we can see the entire run starting before you wind up the motor to then end, then we can give you a more definate opinion on how to proceed!!!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 20, 2011, 11:51:18 AM
Good point... I know I didn't have it wound up enough at the practice pull, that one fell on it's face...

This one I thought I wound er up, but I was pretty quick dumping the clutch so I may not of had the whole "spooling up" effect going on..and I certainly didn't "ease" into it...

I'll try to get the video volunteer to start filming a bit sooner and catch the wind up on camera...

Eariler in this thread I had asked about launching and got the impression I should hold er to the floor and "dump it".....but I did notice some of the guys "slipping" into it and maintaining a higher rev down the track...I'm game for giving it another shot at another track before I bust out the plastic...trying a different launch technique. I was first guy out that day so I didn't see other launches prior to my attempt...

Also Wheelhorse racer said I looked "nose heavy" down the track so I'll shift weight around a bit to lighten and float the front... I was 60# front and 40# on the belly for the 950 class

 

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on June 20, 2011, 12:10:02 PM
You can hold it to the floor and dump if you like working on rear ends! I don't know where you heard that but that is pure "nonsense" to use an acceptable word. 2 things 1-it just breaks your tires loose and will not let you get ahead of the sled while you should be gaining ground speed and 2 it puts a lot of stress on your drive train that is un needed and un wanted. You want to get that motor up in its power band especially when running a heavy flywheel. I usually will open up my 50 as far as it will go and give it a half second to a full second at full tilt then slowly let the clutch out. Depending on track conditions I may slip the clutch out the first 50-75 feet, some tracks may require a shorter slip out and some may require more. You sled will determine a lot of that also but the motor will still be up in its power band. 7000rpm for stock stroke motors is what I would call the low end of the power band, if you start out less than that and you may want to grab a different gear if you did your hole shot right and still didn't get more than that out of it then it wasn't meant to be but if you do your thing right on the line then you can start to eliminate factors and get to the problem.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 21, 2011, 10:38:02 AM
So what kind of rpm should I be looking for in "free spin mode" before I start engageing the clutch...

Sounds like I should see high 7's to 8,000 on the recall from the spool up if I'm doing this correctly...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on June 21, 2011, 11:44:00 AM
Yes Randy. Turn it as high as it will physically turn then start letting the clutch out. Not sure it will turn 8k with your cam but it might come close. The harder you turn it taking off and the easier you are on the clutch engagement the better your run will be. 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 22, 2011, 01:55:47 PM
I think we may have something here... I went out in the shop and after repairing the broken exhaust pipe, and double checking the throttle linkage...

I was able to rev it up a bit higher...it went to 6,800 but if I hold it another second or so it climbed to 7,950...it might go more, but I was happy to see high 7's...

So I have another pull this weekend, I'll watch the tach on the line and make sure I "slip launch" at higher rpm...

I'm hoping if I start a 1,000 or so higher I'll be able to hold 500-600 more down the line and come in closer to the other guys distance...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 22, 2011, 02:45:59 PM
Adjusted the carb a tad and got 8,150...

I think I'm still a little rich on the high side, but I'm gonna run it there and see what it does mid track and at the end... I'm about 3 1/2 almost 4 turns out yet which seems a bit much but Dennis said that carb ran good there. and it don't run for snot at 2- 2 1/2 turn...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 22, 2011, 06:07:48 PM
 >:( And, of course...the driveshaft snaps again when I'm revving it up... :noplease:

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on June 22, 2011, 08:29:41 PM
Do you have a carrier bearing on it randy. Needs to be right behind the spring on driveshaft. If your snapping them just during reving its from material deflection. Should put a bearing in there. You can get a good shaft done from supercub for around  25. plus shipping. Although I have never had a problem running the 4140 shafts. Are you drilling them with a fixture or having them done at a shop. The holes need to be perfect center. Are you running the carb I sold you. It needs to run fat. It will pickup rpm when you think its all done if set right. And yes I was always 3-4 turns out.   
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on June 22, 2011, 08:54:29 PM
Do you have a pin right behind the spring? I don't run them cuz it makes it very weak! I use 2 locking split collars to hold the spring. No problem for 3 years now!!!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 23, 2011, 06:10:32 AM
The first shaft I drilled just with a V block and that may have led to it's demise.

Second shaft I drilled "thru" an old coupler on the V block with a drill press, and those pins lined up a lot easier..

I did have the pin by spring, and that is where it's breaking....will look into shaft locks for that (as well as adjusting spring pressure/pre load)

Will also look into center carrier bearing for shaft, see if I can find parts in town here to set one up...

Probably should have clutch depressed if I'm going to rev er up to 8 grand, and keep the pressure off the unloaded shaft...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on June 23, 2011, 07:08:22 AM
The shaft locks and carrier bearing should solve your problems.  We use to get "loops" in our driveshaft years ago.  Havent had any issues since we went to the bearing 15 years ago.  We consistently run down the track at 7200 and take off around 9800. 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 24, 2011, 05:15:33 PM
Opened a hole in the tunnel to get to driveshaft..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_601111019.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=601111019.jpg)

Makes things much easier...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 25, 2011, 07:48:11 PM
OK, went to a pull with the Upper Peninsula GTPC in the UP of Michigan...

They do things a little differently out there, so I was bumped up to the "Pro Stock" which is an open rpm class for 16hp and up tractors, dual motor jobs and motorcycle motors...It's a short track, with a heavy sled. Everyone runs the same sled weight, bigger classes go further S/A (up to 15hp) was going 50'-65' and pro stocks did 60'-85' etc... the track was marked to 175' (no body made that till the "Super Outlaw" 4 cylinder car motors were up)

They also pull this class at 1200# and I only have enough weight to make 1050 class (1030 actually) so I borrowed a couple 25# lead shot bags and stuffed them under the seat, and went pulling 120# light..

First run reved to 7050 rpm and released clutch, not an instant grab, but seemed to slip a bit at first...??

Droped down to 5600 pretty quickly but held it down the track I made 71' 1" for 4th of 9 tractors...3rd place was 71'10" then two guys went 85' and 86'

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_601111020.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=601111020.mp4)


Second pull launched a little higher (7,400) but drops a bit when I release the clutch (5,400-5,200 down the track) ...69'10" for 7th of 9.

Tires were still spinning at the end, rather than snuffing out, and I was 120# light, so I think I could have done better than I showed...Maybe drop the air a couple pounds in the tires...I'm running 10 psi now...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_601111021.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=601111021.mp4)

I did open the carb a 1/4 turn just before running today and wasn't able to get the 7,900-8,000 I was looking for on spool up.  (I'm thinking I should have gone a 1/4 turn leaner because it was a hot dry day...)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 26, 2011, 10:30:55 AM
My throtle is not opening up all the way, had it to full open in testing, but linkage must vibrate and move closed with spring pressure... less than an 1/8 closed, but still not perfect in line with spraybar...

Need to come up with something different for the carb end linkage...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on June 26, 2011, 03:06:40 PM
Thats how you leave the line Randy. Sounds alot better and stayed on top at the end like you want. That sled is a heavy pig though. Cant ever get any ground speed up with that.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on June 27, 2011, 10:32:33 AM
I watched the last video, and that was a good hole shot for sure. You did your part right, sounds like it labored just a little when topping out. When you get a chance start your engine let it warm just to where it would be when you get ready to run it, hold it open and let it top out then turn the high speed screw out until it starts choking a little then screw it back in just a little bit, you don't want to run a gas motor lean it will kill you at the other end. Also you want to make sure your idle air screw is screwed in as lean as you can get and still get it to idle, you don't want that circuit kicking in while trying to tune your top end and it will if it is screwed out too much. It sounds like you are really close, What are you setting you ignition timing at? What fuel with what specific gravity are you using. Fuel weight is really what helps these gassers, octane enough so it will not ping but thats as far as I rely on octane numbers it is all in the fuel weight. Depending on your clubs rules, most back in the day limited the fuel weight to 0.750 specific gravity, and getting something as close to that as possible will help. They never issued rules on octane because the octane was never a huge as player in the scheme of things as the fuel weight! Keep on keeping on with it, you have done a very good job with this machine and you are dam close to getting it!!! Let me/us know if there is anything we can help out with!!  Bruce
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 27, 2011, 03:16:55 PM
Thanks for the encouraging words guys, I'm feeling better about my chances now that I'm working on takeoff form..

I think the throttle cable still slips a bit when I mash it to the floor and I don't get full rpm off line or down the track.. I'm going to work on that next..

Otherwise I was in the mid pack... and did that a 120# light I'm sure I could have gotten a few more feet if I was fully loaded.. so I need to work on some mounts and build up some more weight plates. to be up to specs..

Timing is at 30*...I'm running the Turbo Blu (110 oct) from the pump at present, haven't found a local supplier for anything better yet...I'll ask around and see if anyone can give me a weight on it..

I'm running a red spring with fiber disc... how long should preload be on spring? I read spring is 6" and loaded should be 4 1/2" (per MWSC catalog) ...does that sound right? cause I think I'm about 5 1/2" compressed to match up where the roll pin was on the original shaft (using collars now)

 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on June 27, 2011, 06:44:10 PM
Four inch is what I have always put them. What did you end using for a cylinder head Randy. You might not even need 110. I know my engine last year when you do the math with cc's and swept volume and such it was 8-1. This years engine is 10-1. I Run a mix between 93 and 110 for now. I can't acually check my timing so I used the in the hole method. Right now its .070. I ned to make a hub for my degre wheel to bolt it to the crank. At a .100 in the whole it won't crank when the key is switched. I have in the past used a bycycle threaded cable adjuster and jam nut on a throttle bracket. Its a positive stop type setup. Its what's used on a brake set for a pedal bike. 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 27, 2011, 07:57:30 PM
4" compressed..? that should help with the slippage I think I'm feeling when I release clutch...
Compression wise...

I have 36.471 cu/in = 597.77 cc

597.77/ 62 cc chamber = 9.64 to 1 compression...

Thats full bore on cylinder and Combustion chamber + head gasket for cc

I do have another billet head from an SS that has been welded up even with the cylinder clearance for "pop up" it measures 55 cc which should raise comp to  10.8 to 1...does this look like a decent design..?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_601111020-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=601111020-1.jpg)

This is what I have now...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_SAhead.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=SAhead.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on June 27, 2011, 08:25:06 PM
That combustion chamber is definetly different. Never seen a trough like that for the exhaust. I built my cylinder head based on Big Daddys experience. Bruce advised me on where and how for chamber placement and so far so good. My head does not have that trough. It is designed just like the stocker but tightend up in all the areas it can be. But I have alot more cam and bigger valves and carb.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on June 27, 2011, 10:00:33 PM
I have more compression ratio than you have on my stock OHV Honda single shaved head and block.... :roll: don't mean to bash on you! I always have trouble with getting good compression ratios on flat heads.

I'd like to know if toluene (stuff that makes TNT, its the "t" in the TNT) would help any if added to your fuel? Or any fuel. I've been wanting to try it myself with 20% in my gas.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on June 28, 2011, 08:09:08 AM
Stuff like that is why gas isn't allowed in NQS. Additives are bad for the engine, you and the crowd if something bad happens.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on June 28, 2011, 10:33:04 AM
Your head looks fine, the only thing different I do is blending the radius around the valves I do not sink it into the ceiling so it will not cause turbulence when the valve is opening and the air flows over the valves, other than that if you are allowing more the correct side clearance to the valves and increasing it as it opens then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I'd buy it! This is more personal preference than anything but I do not trust copper gaskets on the Kohler motors, I always use the old black stuff Vogel use to push, but if it is working for you then don't change it!! I would not spend a lot of time and money on your fuel issue, get one with enough octane so it does not pre-ignite but has good fuel weight around 0.750" specific then stay with it and don't mess with it. I used C-16 from VP fuels when I ran the gas class but it is really expensive but if you have something that you are comfortable with use it and move on to other issues. You might try adjusting the timing from 26-30 if you can hook more than once on the same track to try and give yourself some comparison if you do not have access to a dyno, make sure you have the appropriate plug for the fuel you are running. I couldn't even try to remember which one I used on gas just get the correct heat range. Your problem seems to me something small bacause to me it is right in there where it shoud be its just getting the fine edge and thats when you start looking at basics, or little things because you have the big ticket issues handled.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on June 28, 2011, 10:56:57 AM
Flatheadpuller- let me guess... Running a little nitro mix is bad for the motor too.....
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on June 28, 2011, 12:06:50 PM
Anything is bad for the motor haha. It'll do a number on the piston, valves, cylinder.  But that's what I've seen from a 50% nitro 50% alky mix.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on June 28, 2011, 01:25:26 PM
Randy I never saw the second head pic last night. My computer didnt show it. But yea the head you have now is just like mine. I was talking about the first one pictured.

And yes nitro will and can eat up an engine fast. Its mean stuff. If you know what your doing with it then it can make power. I have never tried it but have seen what it can do to a kohler block. I'm not brave enough to put it in my engine.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on June 28, 2011, 01:37:34 PM
My Honda block is made out of alum. I doubt it will hold up! I'm thinking about running E85! If I can find any......
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Rooster on June 28, 2011, 02:15:45 PM
My Honda block is made out of alum. I doubt it will hold up! I'm thinking about running E85! If I can find any......
http://www.e85fuel.com/find-an-e85-station/

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on June 28, 2011, 05:58:21 PM
Thanks!!! Will it help any???
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: 46oppypuller on June 28, 2011, 08:42:52 PM
E-85 used in the same quantity as gas won't help. A gallon of straight gas contains more btu's than a gallon of ethanol, hense the reason for less fuel milage when switching to e-10 as per the law at gas pumps compared to plain gas. On the other hand if you have a way to increase fuel supply to match btu requirements you get the bonus of much higher octane.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on June 30, 2011, 07:06:33 AM
Oh I see. Oh well lol can't bend the rules any this time! Lol
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on June 30, 2011, 10:48:58 AM
Whats wrong with competeing within the rules..?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on June 30, 2011, 06:53:11 PM
i have no problem with it but my motor is OHV and their rules are set up for 40 year olds flat head kohler! lol and my is a OHV honda pushing around 14 to 1 on pump gas. my motor is burning up!!! but makes tons of torque. i really need to find some good gas!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 03, 2011, 01:43:14 PM
I won some gears on E-bay a 20-22 tooth set...which should fit with the 21-23 set I have now... and with the underdrive I'm running, give me 4 close ratio gears in the range my motors working at at present...

Then as I build on the motor where I can spin something bigger, I can up the range with a standard drive set or even go to a one over pinion if required..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_601111028.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=601111028.jpg)

One question I have is these came "welded up" in the centers... looks like they did that to strengthen the gears as they don't appear to be two piece units...?? Is that OK (common practice) or should I get a different mfg set..?

Next is...are these the correct gears to replace 1st and rev in my tranny...? I already replaced 2nd-3rd.

Beside the lower shaft spacer kit, is there anything else I need to build a 4 speed...? are the aftermarket shift forks "required".. ?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on July 03, 2011, 05:25:10 PM
You'll need shift forks randy. 
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on July 04, 2011, 08:03:56 AM
Those gears will work randy. I wouldnt be afraid of them. The only thing you'll have to do is get the 4 speed spacer set, you have to remove reverse idler and cut the boss out of the trans. Once you get the gears and shafts setup you just align the aftermarket forks up with a good neutral gate. lock them down and go.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 04, 2011, 08:29:41 AM
I think I'm gonna get the video from MWCS...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on July 07, 2011, 08:21:28 PM
Hows the trans coming Randy?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 08, 2011, 10:19:38 AM
Not yet... I bought a hardened top shaft for it the other day and missed on some aftermarket forks..so still in the market...

Once I get the parts together I'll pull 'er down and do it over..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 09, 2011, 07:36:05 PM
Pulled driveshaft and squeezed spring to 4 1/2" ...it was at 5 1/2" from stock pin placement that tightened the clutch up dramaticly will see how it does next week when I pull the 1,200# class again..

Also bolted 80# below axle so that leaves me about 20# moveable for 950 class but more options (front to rear) for 1050 class... for 1,200# I just have to bulk up with whatever I can slap on there..

Bean bags, change in my pocket, etc...

Also picked up a pair of 2X10" tires/wheels for the front, which will bring it up a little, still leaving plenty of rake, but hopeing for more "balance" down the track...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on July 09, 2011, 10:10:23 PM
How much do you weigh? I weigh 175 and in the 1050# class on my tractor I run about 60 to 70# on the belly no matter what. We put our tractors on scales and me moving from back of the seat to the front of the seat I added 18# to the front just by moving my butt. Just some food for thought. Generally unless its sand outside I wont run less than 50# on the nose. The tires we run are Nichols Pulling Edge and very very large diameter lawntecs.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 10, 2011, 05:53:27 AM
Tractor weighs 600, I weigh 250  so with 80 on the axle, I have 20 to play with in 950 class and 120 to play with in 1050...

I can load 190 total on the belly and nose, + 80 on axle+250 for me +600 on the tractor and I'm still 80# short for 1,200 class...

I'm making up some lead weight "bean bags" I can stuff under my seat for 40# or so I just need to work in another "temporary" 40# or so to make that class.. thinking something I can "clamp" on the weight bar under the tractor/or pull bar forward and mount weight up front as needed..

So far, other than a little wheelie at the line when I was "dumping the clutch", the tractor has been running with it's nose planted down the track...I'm hoping with the added weight to the axle and the taller front tires, I can get it to float the front a bit
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 10, 2011, 05:37:14 PM
Lead weight bags wedge and wrap around seat post securing themselves against fenders and are legal in the club that I need them to make weight (1200#)

3 X 25# plates welded to a 3/8" plate mount add 80# below and slightly forward of the C/L of the rear axle...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_601111040.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=601111040.jpg)

Still need another 40# or so to make weight
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on July 10, 2011, 09:03:16 PM
Bolt some on the wheely bars. As close as you can to the hitch. If it's legal. Or put some more lead weight bags between the frame and transmission near the hitch of ya know what I mean. I done that before...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: philr85 on July 10, 2011, 10:44:45 PM
you could go out to KFC with george they would help make weight! lol i couldnt resist saying it kfc has good chicken though!
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 11, 2011, 07:11:39 AM
When I started this project  I weighed 240... now 250 so I'm catching up with George and the KFC traction control...

Course he is shorter than me.... :omg:

Bolt some on the wheely bars. As close as you can to the hitch. If it's legal. Or put some more lead weight bags between the frame and transmission near the hitch of ya know what I mean. I done that before...
I have seen that at the pulls a row of 5#ers on the wheelie wheel axle shaft, kinda looks like a roller

Might help bring the front up as well...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 12, 2011, 05:12:29 PM
OK I think I have it...

Added another 40# under the belly + the 40 in the bags and 80 under the axle with the 1030# I had with the belly bar and front rack full should put me at 1190...which is a lot closer to 1200 than last time I pulled with those guys... (130# light)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_002.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=002.jpg)

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 15, 2011, 02:13:34 PM
2x10s came in and I mounted them.. Raises front about 1 1/2"

Still has plenty of rake, (maybe too much??) but looks good from here.. We'll see if it helps with balance...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_007.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=007.jpg)

Also picked up a 4 puck clutch... won't have time to put it in before the pull this weekend, but that's OK,  I want to see what difference I can feel now that I tightened the spring up an inch to 4 1/2" preload..

Disc has a flat side and a "cupped" side.. when I do install, which goes forward (or toward "fixed" plate...) ? Sounds like I need to drill a new driveshaft as well (compared to fiber disc)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_005-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=005-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 17, 2011, 09:04:08 AM
Definetly need the clutch...even with the spring compressed to 4 1/2" I still had unwanted slippage off the line on the first run,, on the second run it slipped on the line and then again at the end of pull

Made weight, 1198#, and still had tires turning at the end so I went about as far as I could on first run..93' gave me a 4th out of 9 again, with 96', 98' and 101' being the top 3.. But at least I'm right up there with them.. If I can loose the slippage off the line I may have a chance to finish in the money..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_001.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=001.mp4)




Second run was much worse, didn't get up to speed on the line (launched at 6800) clutch slipped off line and never really grabbed, was smoking at the end of run.. 76' gave me a 7th with 104' for 1st.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_IR2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=IR2.mp4)

At the end you can see the wheels stopped before I pushed the clutch in... that can't be good...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 17, 2011, 02:57:20 PM
I'd like to use what I have and upgrade a piece at a time, but I don't want to be chasing ghosts or creating my own problems, so will the 4 puck clutch (pictured above) work with my machined stock plates and red spring...? or is this a good time to jump up to the yellow spring...? or just get the whole assembly new and sell my parts..?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on July 17, 2011, 03:53:00 PM
U should prolly buy the whole etup. You're pulling in some. Extremely heavy classes. And also as you are making more power you'll be replacing parts at some point.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on July 17, 2011, 06:13:58 PM
Randy sell what you have. It will bring good money on fleebay. Then buy midwests 3 puck complete setup minus the driver since you have it already. It will be more clutch then you need. And will take more hp then your single will make. Your right there with them though Randy. A good clutch and you will be making them think.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 18, 2011, 01:12:30 PM
I figgured you guys would say that... (buy a new one)..

But being the cheap and obstinate guy that I am (mostly cheap till the girls get out of collage) I bought a new shaft and will redrill for the 4 puck clutch I already have...

Question is...does the cupped side face forward or back when I install.. ? and should I upgrade to the yellow spring, or will this clutch have that much more "grab" than the fiber disc, with same spring...(cause it looks like I would get the red spring with the 3 puck if I bought that setup...)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 18, 2011, 03:40:47 PM
I'm assuming the cup goes forward so the clutch lines up on the pins with the front plate in the stock location and the rear plate set slightly back..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on July 18, 2011, 06:30:38 PM
Randy is the diameter of the 4 puck kidney beans the same as stock pressure plates?  The only bad thing about the stock pressure plates is with the puck clutch it generates a ton of heat. It will warp your stock plates right now. For high rpm engagement I recommend not using the puck clutch with stock mild steel pressure plates. Been there and it didn't work. The fiber disk doesn't generate the heat like the puck clutch.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on July 18, 2011, 06:33:09 PM
Domt they make kelvar fiber disk? Would that work with stock plates? Just a thought. I never tried the kelvar. I can't find them online. lol
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 18, 2011, 07:11:29 PM
MWSC sells a fiber/kelvar disc and Vogel sells a high performance disc, not sure which I have, but not sure I want to try another..

I can see the heat problem coming with the stock plates... will look into billet plates...should probably get a new bearing to go with my new spring as well..

Dang, I might as well buy a new setup and sell what I have on e-bay...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 19, 2011, 05:10:20 AM
Randy is the diameter of the 4 puck kidney beans the same as stock pressure plates? 

I just noticed on MWSC site the four puck uses a larger driver and pressure plate setup, so I may not be able to use this clutch with my plates or even the standard billet replacement plates..

Will have to pull driveshaft to measure what I have..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on July 19, 2011, 05:27:56 AM
You are not pulling a "stock" motor by no means so LOOSE the red spring!!!!! Anytime you start pumping the power that you are building you will not get the red spring to hold your clutch, and once your clutch starts slipping like you described while under power and full spring pressure then it has started circling the drain. I have had the 3 puck and the 4 puck clutch used in a 47 cid "super stock" then the 4 puck on the 50.0 engine had tons of trouble holding off the line but once locked up worked ok at other end but could not control the lock up at the line and cost me several pulls. The cupped side of the disk goes towards the engine if I remember correctly but you are right you cannot use the 4 puck disk with the 3 disk components. If you have a chunk of aluminum and a lathe you can make your own otherwise call julian and get one from him. A little late for this hint ut don't use any clutch hub that uses the pin, always get a clutch hub that will bolt to the flywheel!! anyway the issues you are having is not uncommon with the red spring, you are making too much power for that spring tension to hold it and you can compress it until it coil binds and it will not solve your problem. When you go to the yellow spring and compress it accordingly, and it has been said here before- use the split lock collars. I use two of them on the back side of the yellow spring when using that clutch. Use a bearing set lock tite on the inner surface once you have them located and tighten them up so that the splits on the collars are 180 degrees apart and you should not have any trouble, just check the spring length occasionally. I whole heartedly belive that when you go to the yellow spring it will/should solve your clutch issues. But you also have to make sure your clutch pieces are in good shape as well. Take the time to put the yellow spring in and check all your clutch components even the teaser spring then give it a try but above all keep us posted!!!    Bruce
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 19, 2011, 09:00:27 AM
Quote
I whole heartedly belive that when you go to the yellow spring it will/should solve your clutch issues. But you also have to make sure your clutch pieces are in good shape as well.

So Bruce, are you saying the yellow spring with the fiber disc and plates I have...?

Or still switch out to 3 or 4 puck clutch and apropriate plates with the yellow spring..?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on July 19, 2011, 09:11:03 AM
Idk if the stock disc will hold up to the power you're making. Both mwsc and vogel ENTIRE clutch setups are being run on bigger tractors with no issues. Sometimes the vogel setup binds after a year or so so if you clearance the driveshaft to start with it shouldn't be an issue. The mini spline setup that vogel sells works well with stock altered motors but wont handle our pro/super motors.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Big daddy on July 19, 2011, 10:32:22 AM
If you are talking about the old cub disks that are all fiber then no they will not hold up, nor will the newer cub disks that have a steel plate sandwiched in between the fiber plates. You will elongate the holes eventually to the point of disk failure and that is not good. The MWSC 3 or 4 puck disk as you can see has a much thicker plate to it so it will not elongate and fail unless you use it for several seasons. The clutches Drew is talking about the facts are very true about the mini spline and the big spline clutch. They are good clutches (expensive!) but you have to know what they can be used in and how to adjust the pieces to make them live without any problems, I know of several tractors with the big spline clutch and they all say the same thing about clearancing around the shaft so the clutch will not hang up and the ones who have used the mini spline clutch all say the same thing with the 50's just like Drew said. The 3 and 4 puck clutch s/u should work fine for you if you use the entire s/u the way and with the parts it is designed to be used with. For your application the 3 puck should be enough but if you still have trouble you can go with the 4 puck. But neither will work for you with the red spring!!
Looks like I will be out of the game for another year or two, I would love to come watch you pull and help you out in person, but keep uploading videos. You will get this ironed out just stay with it and be patient. Trust your gut instinct and you will do fine!!  Bruce
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 19, 2011, 10:52:40 AM
I appreciate the help and advice you guys are giving me.. I'm still having a good time even if I'm not running the front of the pack "yet"...

I also appreciate the input on the videos and what you see.. I sure would like someone to be there in person someday though.. not completely satisfied I have this tuned in just right yet (close probably, but still stumbles more that I think it should on transition...)

I'll pull the shaft tonight, and see if the 4 puck clutch fits the 6 pin driver I have, if it does then it sounds like I just need to order the matching plates and yellow spring and should be in business...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on July 19, 2011, 11:08:55 AM
What's the furthest south you pull? We are hoping to have the diesel done in early september and we are coming up to pull against Stahls 90 cube twin with it.  Or worse comes to worse if youre coming to the uslmra finals at delaware there is a pull at 1 pm the saturday of im sure they'd let you run in. Its all nqs classes but im sure they'd let you make an exhibition or stick you in with the altereds/outlaws.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 19, 2011, 12:42:07 PM
Been down to Deleware a time or two for Nats, but not this year (have plans for Labor day weekend) but where will you be pulling the diesel against the 90...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on July 19, 2011, 12:54:53 PM
Iowa. Wisconsin. Idk if you know matt kaster or not but he's building a diesel also. He's from burlington wisc.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on July 19, 2011, 04:21:43 PM
I can make it down south in Wisconsin easy enough , got family in Milwaukee..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 03, 2011, 12:22:26 PM
Alright, I broke down and ordered a new, 3 puck clutch setup, billet plates with yellow spring and HD arm from MWSC..

Saw a few on e-bay and GT classified, but between being used or not the right parts, by the time I upgrade it made more sence to buy all new stuff.. ,

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 04, 2011, 09:53:08 AM
Nice looking piece, will get it installed tonight, have a pull "available" this weekend, but unfortunately I will be out of town.. So will have to wait till the 13th to feel it work..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_012.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=012.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on August 04, 2011, 10:06:18 AM
You will be much happier with this. These clutchs can be set up with "built in slip" if you'd like. I know that's how a lot of people set them up.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 04, 2011, 10:15:04 AM
What do you mean by "built in slip"...?  I thought we were trying to eliminate the slip I've been having..?

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on August 04, 2011, 10:21:15 AM
I think he is speaking of adjusting the spring rate on the driveshaft. The puck clutches can be made to slip a little even after your foot is off pedal. BUT they will eventually go direct drive unlike the fiber disk. Don't worry Randy. Just make sure the spring length is correct when installed and you'll be just fine. It will not slip when your foot is off the clutch. Leave the clutch tuning till later. You want to control the slip with your foot. Turn it as high as it will go then start letting up on clutch. Slip it as far as you want to get a good launch without breaking traction.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 04, 2011, 04:06:44 PM
Think I found part of the problem...when I took the old clutch out I see the spring has slid out to 5 1/2" again, that would explain the slippage on the second run.. maybe even the first run.

But I'm not gonna worry about it, new clutch is in and adjusted up, seems to lock in tight on takeoff (left black marks on the pavement, old clutch wouldn't do that) now I just need to practice/get a feel for the new clutch engagement..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_015.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=015.jpg)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 13, 2011, 04:40:12 PM
Well, fixed one problem and created a new one...

Clutch holds well, no slippage, but the heavier yellow spring with the extended arm was too much pressure for the almost 50 year old steering tower and clutch arm mount...It bowed out to the point the top of the arm was "clicking" against the driver pins...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_016-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=016-1.jpg)
At first I thought it was the gears themselves in the tranny grinding, when I tried to put it in gear at the line on the first hook...so I just jammed it in 2nd and got what wind up I could and let 'er rip...

Recall says I never got over 5800, and I think I worked "up" to that down track rather than launch speed...needless to say less than spectacular finish...

Went to pits and seen the arm rubbing the pins and with a little persuation (BH) got some clearance so I could make the 1050 run...That launch was also not of "epic" proportions, I did get rpm up...but release was less than smooth with the flex in the mount, again running a strong 5800 rpm down the track

Was pulling with the Dairyland GT Pullers out of SW Wisconsin on a 275' track.. :omg: Forgot my camera so I didn't get video of the runs...Out of 8 SA's, 4 went 194' to 196' for the wins and 4 of us went 169 'to 178' for the rest of the positions in both the 950 and 1050 class. ( I did 174' and 176' for a 6th and 5th finish)

Considring the clutch trouble I was glad to have done that...

I definetly think I need a different cam, I've been launching at 7,200-7,500 rpm and pulling around 5,400-5,800 and I'm afraid that's all she has... Talking with the top 3 guys (can you imagin asking advice from a 14 yr old..?) they were launching at 8,500-8,900 rpm and running low to mid 7s down the track (only one tooth higher than me) I think I could put the extra 1,500 rpm in the power band to good use if I had it...

Unfortunatly they weren't quite as open with cam numbers as they were rpm but looked like Hackman and Vogel were the cam of choice...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on August 13, 2011, 06:52:52 PM
Randy I usually put a piece of 2x2 heavy wall angle iron in there behind the tower front pieces. Or like on my sons new cub I enclosed the whole front with with 1/8 inch plate.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 13, 2011, 08:07:46 PM
Now he tells me... J/K

I saw it flexing when I first put it in, must have taken just so many pumps before the rust gave out and it stayed...

Figured I'd reinforce with maybe a 1/4" x2" bar and now I can make a new mount "U" with tighter holes as well, should make for a smother more consistant pedal feel..


I have to pull the motor and clutch out to do a good job in there so been debating whether I should just pull the motor down and stick a new cam in now...

Have a couple nice "local" pulls the next two weeks (less than 60 miles) I'd like to make, one in the UPGTP 1200# class where I would get a good comparison for the new clutch...the other with a new group just down the road from here....

Might wait till after those...looks like the season goes to end of Sept and one in early Oct so still might have a chance to redeem myself before end of year...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: philr85 on August 13, 2011, 11:47:25 PM
well dont forget the camera i wish we coulda seen ya go at it  clutch is defintly beefier
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 14, 2011, 06:59:18 AM
well dont forget the camera i wish we coulda seen ya go at it  clutch is defintly beefier
Usually I do, but this pull was @ 10:00 and 3 hrs away from me so I was up @ 5:30 and on the road @ 6:00 to make it...

I don't think straight till 7:00 and after a pot of coffee...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: philr85 on August 14, 2011, 09:47:12 AM
wow no wonder you forgot it
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 15, 2011, 07:08:59 AM
Got the clutch mount in ...a piece of 3/8" x 2" flat with 1/4" ears welded on for the mount...I don't think it's gonna bend.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_021-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=021-1.jpg)

Much sturdier now and feels like a clutch should... has a definet engagement point and nice steady spring pressure thru the throw...

Should be easier to feather and give a smooth engagement off the line ...

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 17, 2011, 06:22:58 PM
I tore the motor down to get the numbers off my cam, found a few issues that may have been holding me back..

Lifters were too small, only had the 1.050" "stock" lifters in there cam guy says I probably lost a hp or two and a couple lbs of torque by not having the wide base...also noticed a little blow thru on the head gasket to head interface, think I was loosing a little compression there, so I'll be using a new/different better flowing head with smaller CC and new coper gasket...also due for some new rod bearings before they cause trouble with the crank...

Had to order bearings so broke down and ordered a new cam lifter spring set as well...I will be doing 8,500+ on the line and 7+ down the track yet this year...I'll miss the pull this weekend, but should have it back together for the next one on the 27th.. Now we'll be getting somewhere...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on August 17, 2011, 07:26:40 PM
The only thing I found that seals up a copper gasket is orange rtv. A little on both sides of the gasket and let it cure first before putting any heat in it.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on August 19, 2011, 03:10:42 PM
On our pro super motor we just used the brush on copper seal... never had an issue randy and we had to take the head off every time we placed
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on August 19, 2011, 03:19:52 PM
Ditto what he said.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 19, 2011, 08:10:39 PM
I have the spray on stuff how does that compare..?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on August 20, 2011, 08:21:56 AM
It will hold if you put it on and leave the head on but if you have to pull it every time to be techd the adheasive wears off when the engine gets hot the brush on stays plyable
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burwell555 on August 20, 2011, 10:05:49 PM
Hmm. Interesting I find this in the pulling section. I had trouble with my circle track motor. The copper gasket is quite a bit thicker than 'normal' and I could not keep it sealed. Bruch on or spray on copper coat wouldn't do it for me. I ended up using the high temp rtv and it hasn't given me no trouble since.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on August 21, 2011, 09:38:08 AM
Not arguin with you there zach I know the troubles you have had but kohler blocks are shall we say just a touch beefier not to mention if randy puts on a billet head that will pretty well solve all leakage issues...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: badboysracing on August 21, 2011, 06:58:18 PM
Randy where is the pull on the 27th at. may have to just go watch it
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 21, 2011, 07:12:45 PM
Gleason Wi 3:00

Mini Rods will be there too..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: mower_mulisha on August 21, 2011, 08:27:37 PM
Randy are you going to be racing Oct 1st and 2nd in Wausau here with the Central Wisconsin Pullers?? They will be running at the Snowmobile Grass Drags. We're also going to be racing there too on Sunday the 2nd. That's a big pulling event too....Atvs, garden tractors and mini rods.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 21, 2011, 11:28:00 PM
If things go well...I'll be there...

That's the state championship for Central Wis, I believe first day is qualifying and second day is finals...

Hopefully I'll be there both days...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 23, 2011, 12:39:56 PM
Got the new cam in today.. just looking at it looks faster...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_023.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=023.jpg)

Will install tonight with new wide base lifters and HD springs...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on August 23, 2011, 12:50:06 PM
Now that's what we like to call a plateau on a canyon. I think you'll be a lot happier with that cam.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on August 23, 2011, 05:50:53 PM
That cam will make stuff happen. Good choice Randy. You will like the outcome much better.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 24, 2011, 05:48:55 AM
Got the motor together last night, too late to test, will put it in and fire it up tonight...

Had a fight on my hands with the new springs... old ones were 5 coils of 1/8" wire...these are 4 coils of 3/16" wire and they bent my compressor, one I borrowed and finally went in with an extra set of hands, a screw driver and a diesel motor spring compressor...

I don't think they'll float...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on August 24, 2011, 08:23:21 AM
Make sure you have a good oil in there. The springs are hard on the lifters and cam. Did you polish the lifter face. When I got mine from chuck he told me to polish them. I am running his double prostock springs. I just had the machine shop put them on. They were a bear on my spring compressor.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on August 24, 2011, 07:10:10 PM
Got the new cam in today.. just looking at it looks faster...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_023.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=023.jpg)

Will install tonight with new wide base lifters and HD springs...

What cam grind is that? Or it's a secret? Lol
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 25, 2011, 07:51:24 PM
No secret, It's a Vogel Grind.

I had looked at Hackman and Lakota and think this is right in there and maybe a tad stronger.

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 28, 2011, 06:50:22 AM
I'm finding there is a lot more to this pulling game than meets the eye..

You would think it's all about the tractor, whoever dumps the most money into the biggest motor will win, but there is a whole nother parcel of things to screw up on in the driving side as well...

I still get as nervous and "fidgety" lining up to go 200' and I did to go 20 laps...but here you only get one shot at it... on a circle track, if you screw up a tad, you still have 10-12 laps to make it up, but here if you don't get off the line right it's tuff to make it up down the track...

Went down to Gleason to pull with the Central Wisconsin ATV Pullers, (80% ATV, 10% mini rod and a few Garden tractors) a little nervous with the new cam in the motor, get to the line and get the green flag, stomp on the gas and I look down to watch rpm rise for launch and realize I didn't turn the Digitron on yet...

That throws me for a second, but I quick hit reset and launch "by ear"...I must have bad ears cause I didn't have but maybe 6000rpm when I slipped the clutch and let 'er go... new clutch works and feels good..I go down the track and see rpm is "climbing" as I go but I have an occasional "pop" in the exhaust, so of course I worry about that...I get it up to 6,900 down the track befor weight transfers, so I guess the motor is making some power, I just lost ifull potential on the launch...little bit of smoke at the end, but thats just burning off the "outside" of the block from the rebuilding...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Gleason.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Gleason.mp4)

I get 275' for 4th out of 4 with 289' being the winning pull..You can hear the "pop" on the video, now I know what it is but then I wasn't sure if it was a lean pop or a too rich pop...If it's lean and I go leaner I can damage the motor, so I go 1/4 turn richer to be safe...Come to find it's the wrong way...

I had tuned it up in the garage with the airfilter off and then didn't "readjust" after I put it on so it went rich at the track...I go for second pull (tach on this time) and it bubbles and gurgles won't rev past 6000...

 Should have aborted the pull and reset, but I'm new so I launch hoping it'll clear up down track...it didn't, so half way down I reach over and twist the carb adjuster 1/2 turn "lean" and it clears up and really starts pulling (again too late) ...another 4 of 4 but this time I was within 2' or so of being in the money.. (didn't get video of second run)...

I'm pretty confident the motor has much more in it than I let it show, now that I got it tuned in, I just have to tweak the nut behind the wheel to get get the launch sequence right and give 'er a fair shot...




Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on August 28, 2011, 07:10:32 AM
I still get andy before every pull. If u watch my video on youtube under the post name drewbur10, everything I do before I launch settles me. I like to drive out to the track to warm the clutch and loosen my legs up. Then I like to look under the seat to make ute I know what gear im in. Then I pull the weight bar out. Then I check to make sure the fuel is on in both places. At this point I turn the tach on lock in gear and go. Im calm then. Its all in finding your own little routine that makes you the most comfortable. Oh and I always carry a Buckeye in my left pocket.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on August 31, 2011, 01:12:14 PM
I watched the video, and it seems you spend more time on the "routine" than the actual pull.. lol

I have to keep in mind it's just me against the machine (sled) when the green flag drops... I'm so used to circle track lemanns starts that when the flag drops everything in my body screams out "get this machine moving" rather than pulling out on my time when all is ready..

I also have to remember the 75' break out cones, if things aren't where I want them on the start (like a too rich motor or wrong gear choice) I can abort the hook and try again...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on August 31, 2011, 02:29:37 PM
I do spend a lot of time on the routine, that's the o lt thing I've found that put me in my comfort zone before I pull. Every person has their little things they like to do to focus. Most of my nerves come from knowing I paid $70 per hook.

You're doing a lot better from the first video I've seen to the latest. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: jasonsmoot49 on September 04, 2011, 07:55:20 PM
Don't know if you put a cooling fan on your tractor or not but you can get the same one that midwest sells at walmart for 20 dollars. If you get it at midwest it will cost you 23 plus 13 shipping. Just trying to help ya out.
Forgot to mention its an Attwood turbo 3000 inline blower
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 04, 2011, 07:57:02 PM
Thanks for the tip, don't have a fan yet, not sure if I need one, seems to be plenty of time to cool between runs up here...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Burton for Certain on September 04, 2011, 07:59:58 PM
The only time the really get used is when they re-set the sled or if you turn your first hook down. I have one if u want to pay shipping ill give it to you.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: jasonsmoot49 on September 04, 2011, 08:04:46 PM
Just thought it would help
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 11, 2011, 06:32:42 PM
Thought I'd try something different this week... Put 'er in high gear, reved 'er up good and launched 'er to see what she'd do...

I got two second place finishes...

I had been pulling in 2nd which with underdrive is about a 19 tooth...and coming in mid pack...

I slid 'er into 3rd (which is about a 21) and gave it a shot.. Launched at about 7000 and climbed to 7,200 for most of the run felt and sounded stronger than it had all season...2nd in the 950#

Then I thought what the heck try it in the 1050 as well...reved well good launch and still held high 6's down the track till the tires spun out...another 2nd with 3 and 4 only a foot or two behind, 1st was a good step ahead of us all in both classes...

I don't have video , but 1st place drivers wife got a shot of my run, so as soon as she sends it to me I'll post it here...Fastest I've been down the track since I've started..

Ohh...and I got paid..:omg:

Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: gtpuller on September 11, 2011, 06:48:01 PM
thats awesome congratulations Randy.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 11, 2011, 07:22:19 PM
Now I'm thinking it might pull a higher gear yet...at least in the lighter class...If I pull my 20% underdrive, I would have a 21 and 23 tooth to play with...but I wouldn't have a 19 to fall back on...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 11, 2011, 07:45:07 PM
Great going Randy. Its a good feeling being in the money isnt it. I think its time for a 3 speed setup. 19,21,23. Glad to hear Randy.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 14, 2011, 01:34:29 PM
Kevin sent me the video on Facebook...
 http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/profile.php?id=1424246395

Anyone know how to get it off FB and down loaded onto my vid player...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on September 14, 2011, 04:17:47 PM
never mind... i see the video now. wouldnt show up on my ipad
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 17, 2011, 07:25:30 PM
Finally happened...

Good track...

Good Bite...

Took the time to turn on the tach...

Revved 'er good...

And let 'er go..

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_005-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=005-2.mp4)
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on September 17, 2011, 07:54:30 PM
Looks like you either broke the drive shaft pin or you broke the ring and pinion or the axles. Been to all three... Not so fun trust me!  :bash:
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 17, 2011, 07:58:49 PM
I'm thinking carrier, ...I pull it apart tomorrow..
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 17, 2011, 08:28:36 PM
Did you have a stock diff in there.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 18, 2011, 01:04:24 AM
Yep, still have the stock stuff in the back, course spline axles and "skinny" diff...

 I have a second set I can put in there which wil get me thru the last pull of the season, then I'll have time to locate some heavier pieces for a rebuild and 4 speed upgrade this winter...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 18, 2011, 06:47:11 AM
I would put your other stock one in and weld it. Your tractor doesn't go so fast it will get scary or out of control on you with a weld diff. I know most people don't like them but they work when that's all you have and they won't break with your powerplant in front either.
We ran the skinny diff and course spline stuff for a whole season behind our open vtwin. We broke 3 axles at the spline but the welded diff never broke. However it was cracked when we removed it to install our dart setup.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 18, 2011, 06:50:54 AM
So the welding is not so much to lock the axles in "posi" as it is to hold the sides together and keep it from splitting...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 18, 2011, 06:58:26 AM
No Randy it does lock the diff. You weld the spiders together but not to the carrier. The spiders are steel and the carrier is cast iron. Just weld the spider teeth toether were the contact each other. But makesure the carrier is installed in the rear end and the axles in place when you weld it. Just cut a piece of cardboard out to cover the ring gear teeth so weld splatter doesn't get on them. The welding holds the diff gears inplace so they can't come apart and split the carrier. But it does make it a "posi".
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 18, 2011, 07:03:02 AM
So how does that compare strength wise to a fine spline carrier and axles or jumping to a Dart rear setup...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 18, 2011, 07:29:36 AM
My opinion is this.
A welded diff is very strong. Course spline axles are week. But it will take awhile before you break an axle. You'll break an axle before you break a welded carrier. The fine spline stuff is strong. I have never ran it though.  You prolly wouldn't have a problem with it. The dart set is bullet proof. I put an add on craigslist for a 7 1/4 chrysler rear end and picked up to of them for 50. Put one in my tractor and the open vtwin tractor. If you have access to a lathe and vertical mill you can do the work your self. If you look for a dart rear end from the car guys you can get them cheap. Don't look for a dart rearend from pulling tractor guys otherwise you'll pay way to much for one.  I broke a set of stock axles in my tractor last year with a welded diff. The splines twist off. If you can get a fine spline bolt together diff it is definetly an upgrade.  
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on September 19, 2011, 03:06:30 PM
It was definitely the carrier, busted 'er up good...many peices...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_001-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=001-1.jpg)

I do have a spare and I'm ready to slip 'er in, but for the life of me, I can't remember what the "twist and turn and flip" trick is I need to do to get it to fit in the hole...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 19, 2011, 03:07:55 PM
If you have the bearings off it goes in much easier.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Caudy155 on September 21, 2011, 04:40:12 PM
Haha I don't miss rebuildin trannys... towards the end of dads pulling career we did a bunch till we actually swapped cases... after so long the case actually warped and wouldn't hardly hold to the end of the track swapped in a new case after many many sets of ring nd pinions and never had a problem again... mind you it took at least 10 years to warp that much
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 02, 2011, 03:58:30 PM
Last Pull of the season... Wausau Championship SnoMow Drags, Swap Meet and GT Pull...Had several clubs representing...

Not best quality video (sorry) but my first good clutch action at launch on a sticky track and check out the "inchworm" technique at the end as I approach the leader pole...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_Wausau10.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=Wausau10.mp4)

Didn't make the second day (sunday) trailer axle broke halfway down and I spent the day jacking the axle, changing the tire and limping home...

But at least the tractor still runs...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Rooster on October 02, 2011, 05:04:01 PM
Did the lead hold out?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 02, 2011, 05:17:48 PM
Unfortunatly no... But it was a first for me, several guys that have been beating me all season set the bar in front of me and I was able to meet it...

I finished with a pair of threes that day, but even that was an accomplishment (for me) playing with the big boys from several clubs that day...

I thought overall the season went well, I didn't dominate or impress anyone, but I had fun and learned alot..

Made many improvements over the course of the season and adjusted my technique as I gained experiance...

Got a good looking machine, runs strong and is capable of running up front, just need to fine tune my driving and weight balanceing and I think next year will be a lot more productive...

Now I have the winter to tear open the trannny and make it a 4 speed and put in a stronger diff...maybe switch to alcohol...
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 08, 2011, 02:39:11 PM
Still working on this thing...

OK, got the two piece carrier... Coarse spline spider gears fit fine, now I can use my CS axles..
This thing is quite a bit heavier duty than the coarse spline carrier...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_007-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=007-1.jpg)

But I notice the ring gear is straight cut...old gear is bevel cut...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/th_008-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Squidd/?action=view&current=008-2.jpg)

Will I be better off looking for a straigh cut pinion gear/shaft...? or can I just cut the rivits and rebolt the bevel gear on the bolt together carrier...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 08, 2011, 04:52:58 PM
I think you can switch the ring gears.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on October 08, 2011, 05:07:47 PM
I asked on MWSC site and was told it would be easier to switch rings as the straight cut is for a hydro
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on February 16, 2012, 02:34:40 PM
Been pulling in any indoor pulls lately?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: Squidd on February 16, 2012, 05:55:47 PM
No, we don't have any on the local level around here...and I'm not quite ready to do a national event yet...

What have you been doing to keep busy...?
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: cubcadet70 on February 16, 2012, 07:55:21 PM
I've just rebuilt my GX390 stocker motor and turned it around to run the clutch off the flywheel side. The previous owner had it driven off the PTO side.

I'm always tinkering with my tractor some way or another. I've got a indoor pull on March 24th in KY to go to. Won third place last year with the GX390. Hoping for first place this year with some new goodies. I've got to get a new paint job on it! That's where I'm at now.

I'm hoping to get into national lever in the next year or two if they have a single OHV class. I keep hearing rumers about it! This will be interesting!

I think you should save up some money to buy a used NQS stock altered with aftermarket block. And some good tires too if your club allows professional tires.
Title: Re: Thinking of getting into it...
Post by: bigbird86 on January 24, 2013, 11:59:49 PM
i got a 79 bolens i was thanking about useing it for pulling but idk if there any good its got a twin cylinder motor and its drive shaft driven if any one knows let me know thanks