Heymow - Lawnmower Racing Forum

Mower Building / Setup Help => Garden Tractor Pulling => Topic started by: FlatheadPuller on December 10, 2009, 07:54:18 pm

Title: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 10, 2009, 07:54:18 pm
I am building another tractor for garden tractor pulls. Going to start a build thread on this one to. It might be a little slow as its a winter project. It will use modified cub cadet frame rails, cub rear axle and steering gear. Custom front axle, VW clutch and an AGND wisconsin engine. I have JD 216 sheet metal for it. It will be setup like a half pint chassis but will not use a drop box. I like the half pint chassis style but in our rules you cannot use a drop box. I figured out a way to get around using a drop box wich you'll see later.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_DSCN0023.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=DSCN0023.jpg)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_DSCN0023.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=DSCN0023.jpg)

This is the front axle I built. It is entirely my design. I couldn't find one I liked in the aftermarket catalogs so I built my own.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on December 11, 2009, 06:03:14 am
You might look into using the front reduction housing from the original cub cadet tractor. It may not drop quite as much as a "drop box". But it is factory equipment, you may have to alter the gear ration from what you could get with a drop box, but I have seen this done.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: RICHARD_NOLIMIT on December 11, 2009, 06:14:01 am
I like that. Looking forward to keeping up on the build.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 13, 2009, 09:31:37 pm
Put a big dent in it this weekend. Started with two frame rails and ended with a rolling chassis.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_tractor001.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=tractor001.jpg)
I scored this cub axle off Craigslist for $40
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_tractor002.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=tractor002.jpg)
The frame rails cut to fit under the cub axle instead of on top.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_tractor006.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=tractor006.jpg)
JD steering gear. Its the same box that the cubs use just different mounting pattern.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_tractor007.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=tractor007.jpg)

The rear rims were made from 4 rims. They were cut on a lathe with the correct offset and valve stem orientation and welded together with a tig. No tubes, no air leaks. The tires will get double cut by myself. The Carlisle are very good when double cut. Were I pull I will run a carlisle against a purpose built tire anyday. The frame will get cut out where the engine is and dropped 3 more inches. I am having a driveshaft made to connect the trans and clutch housing. 1000 series ujoints and 3/4 4140 stressproof steel for the shaft.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: RICHARD_NOLIMIT on December 13, 2009, 09:48:04 pm
Looks pretty solid. I like it all ready. Don't have any ?s on it yet. Thank you for keeping us up to date and explaining it.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: fx28 on December 13, 2009, 10:32:14 pm
Looks good Dennis.  I had some front wheels just like those  LOL!!!!

Chuck Miller
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on December 14, 2009, 06:36:01 am
I would get rid of the u joints, and align the engine, drive shaft and input shaft. With a cub style clutch there is torsional as well as compressive stress applied to the driveline.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 14, 2009, 10:01:33 am
It will not have a cub cluch Bruce. IT has a VW set up that is all self contained in the clutch housing. All I have to do is slide the ujoints on and go.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on December 14, 2009, 12:32:10 pm
All the VW clutches I have ever seen in a puller still did not use a U-joint. I would align everything, use a carrier bearing and still forget the U-jolint.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 14, 2009, 12:58:19 pm
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_wisconsin001.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=wisconsin001.jpg)

Here is the clutch housing Bruce. I removed the chain setup. Now there is a 1/2 inch plate that bolts to the rear side of the bellhousing. It has a sealed high speed bearing with a locking coller on it. That bearing holds the rear of the shaft. The pilotbearing in the crank is a roller pilot bearing. All this stays with the engine when it removed. I am using the original VW bellhousing to release the clutch. The wieght of the clutch housing is only 20lbs. Since a VW clutch is a push type clutch there will be no where for the output shaft of the clutch housing to go but toward the engine. The engine is so tall I cannot get it under the hood If I use a cub clutch setup.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on December 14, 2009, 02:20:46 pm
I see what you are getting at now. Makes sense with a pic. All other VW clutches I have seen used a different flywheel arrangement than we typically use with the Kohler type engines and was just not getting a grasp for the use of the u-joint. Have you had a chance to get a hold of the different reduction housing we spoke of earlier? To see where the input shaft CL will be. I figured the Wisconsin engine you were going to use would be taller than the Kohler type engine, but for your class rules should work out fine. I would still think about a carrier bearing especially if the driveshaft CL does not align with the input shaft or crank CL. The input shafts on these transmissions are not very thick and will not stand much horizontal deflection without breaking. Looks like you are getting down the road with it! Keep on keeping on!!
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 14, 2009, 03:01:49 pm
I am still looking for the original series reduction housing. I have not found one yet. As far as a carrier bearing. It will not run unless it has one. Thats a chance I don't need to take. The engine is alot taller than a k series. Its is 21.5" tall without the plug. That clutch housing is the actual bellhousing from a vw transaxle. The vw clutches you have seen,what style vw clutch disk and pressure plate was used. They make a few different plate loads and disk types. I have been told a stock vw clutch gives good results.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on December 14, 2009, 04:19:05 pm
It was a VW clutch and pressure plate as far as what style I could not say, a steel flywheel is made that will work on a Kohler crank and is made to accept the VW clutch and pressure plate. Chuck Vogel use to make them and all the parts associated with them. Years ago before we had good clutches a lot of pullers used them, I have a feeling we may be going back to them in the next few years. Some new stuff has come out that bumped the numbers some more, I should say some new stuff to go with stuff that has been around for decades, anyway the clutches we have now are starting to falter again. Some of the pullers I talked to say they loved the VW clutch because it did not slip once engaged and some I talked to said they had trouble slipping it off of the line. But I seen a few of them abuse them off the line and done really well. I know Chuck Vogel had one in his blown tractor and had good luck with it. I may go to one in the next few years, depends on how things turn out this winter.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 14, 2009, 06:44:20 pm
From what I have seen in the VW mags and online in the dune buggy forums you can get 3,4,5 puck clutches 6,8,10 respectivly. Presure plates into the 2500lb ratings. If they hold 250+hp in a rail or street bug a garden tractor out to be nothing for them. I am going to try the 3 puck disk and a stock psi plate. They are 12-1500lbs stock. My flywheel bolts to a hub that gets slid on the pto side of the engine. The flywheel has had alot of work done to it. With the psi plate on the flywheel it should be in the 25-30lb range.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on December 15, 2009, 06:24:07 am
I do know that a lot of the pullers that use the VW set up have their flywheel lightened up. What is the crank diameter on the end you will mount the flywheel. If it is not thick enough and have enough bearing support the crank will fail prematurely. Most of them lighten the flywheel by drilling large holes in them in the areas that will not affect the functionality of the flywheel for the clutch. Check out Vogel manufacturing and midwest supercub's website. You will see some examples of the flywheels I am talking about and see how they have lightened them up. I think 12-1500lbs on the pressure rating should be quite sufficient pressure.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on December 15, 2009, 09:43:29 am
If you are looking for the front reduction housing from the "original" cub, and maybe the axle housings also from that transaxle, give Don Vogt a call. He had an advertisement on GTPulling about a butt load of parts.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 15, 2009, 10:12:33 am
The crank pto diameter is 1 7\16. This engine was run 20 years ago with this entire setup in a pulling tractor. Its been shelved for that long until I bought it. I will get ahold of Don V. about the original parts.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 30, 2009, 10:23:54 am
Started Jr's new stock class tractor. It started as a Wheelhorse 308. I pulled all the Wheelhorse sheetmetal off of it. Using the wheel horse frame I have sectioned a fender/setpan from a 200 series JD on to the wheel horse chassis. The steering has been lowered and moved back 3 inches. This is so JR can drive with out feeling uncomfortable. The column the steering shaft is in is from a rear engine JD. The fender pan has been narrowed 6 inches. I have to cut the JD foot rests out of it and section the Wheelhorse foot rests into the JD fender pan. This tractor has to run 23x10.50x12 tires. It will have a 16hp kohler k341. All stock on the governor at 4000rpm.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_jrstractor.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=jrstractor.jpg)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 04, 2010, 02:03:31 pm
Here is some more of what I got done this past weekend. I got the steering buttoned up on my tractor.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_tractor012.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=tractor012.jpg)
I also got the wheelhorse foot rests grafted into the JD fender pan. I am also using the factory wheel horse belt gaurd.
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_tractor009.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=tractor009.jpg)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_tractor010.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=tractor010.jpg)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 29, 2010, 11:11:43 pm
Been a little slow. Been working a ton and buying parts. Haven't got much more done. I did however send my piston to a guy in ohio. He is making me a billet connecting rod for the AGND. Uses a kohler rod bearing and is made from 7075. I am awaiting arrival of my custom manely stainless steel valves as well. They told me they will be shipped Feb 8.

Bruce, my Vw flywheel and hub is a total of 20lbs. This is not including the psi plate or disk. Do you think I should lighten it up some more. The crank shaft in this AGND dwarfs a k series crank. Its solid forged steel. Solid rod pin. Its just a beast.

The cam I have boxed up. Sending it to Chuck Vogel to get a stock altered grind put on it. I have to CC the head and figure compression ratio. Then the machine shop can weld the head up and reshape combustion chamber.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 06, 2010, 11:13:22 pm
I acually started it over. The more I looked at what i had the more I wanted to make changes to it. A couple rules changed with my club and I couldn't resist. I am now building a 1" tube componet chassis. Using a original cub reduction housing. Very low slung, low engine mounts, low trans input. I bought a metal brake and a tubing notcher. I have flattop fenders i built that resemble those from a 6030 JD. The hood and fenders will look like a mid 60's 6030. I think it will be much nicer and more apealing to the eyes. I will have some pics in a week or so after final welding is done.

Jrs tractor is in 90% primer. Just a couple more parts to refinish.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 07, 2010, 10:58:30 am
Here are Jrs fenders finished and in prime. I got the center cut out for the weight box under the fender pan. All wieght brackets are made as well. I need to bend up the hood. I just got a new sheet metal brake. Need to try it out.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/jrsnewfenders.jpg)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on March 08, 2010, 07:29:49 am
I think the 20lb. flywheel will be fine. I would make it modular if you can, i.e. make a hub that you can change plates with. Most individuals that I have talked with for that class are using a little heavier flywheel with the shorter stroke engines, but the stroke in your engine has a considerable difference in stroke so you will not need as heavy a flywheel as others in that type of class.
I may have your engine confused with someone else, sorry. If you are using a stock stroke 16 Kohler then 20 lbs. will work ok, but 25+lbs. will work better for you as long as you get the engine spun up on the line and let the engine with that flywheel combination do the work on the other end of your run.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 08, 2010, 01:53:54 pm
You have it right Bruce. My engine is a 4 inch stroke. The flywheel and hub is 20lbs plus whatever the clutch disk and p plate wiegh. I think it will be around 28-30 lbs total. I do have enough room to lighten the flywheel if needed. I can get it down to 12lbs according to the VW experts I have spoke with.

Dennis
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on March 08, 2010, 04:31:49 pm
I would say with that long of stroke if you could get the outer rotating mass down to between 15-18lbs. in my opinion that would be better. With the longer strokes too much outer mass can slow them down a little.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 08, 2010, 10:00:39 pm
Well I guess I have to make a trip to my machinest buddy and have the flywheel put on the lathe. My cam blank is done and should be at Vogel in a few days. I am going with a .340 lift cam per my class rules. .340-290-8 grind. Chuck said it should work good with the 4 inch stroke to fill the cylinder to make some power. Hoping to turn it 6500+, we will see.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on March 09, 2010, 06:25:36 am
When you get that motor up to 6500+ it is going to be a bear to contend with in that class. You may have a little different gearing than what everyone else is running though. I would plan on having at least one gear possibly two higher in the box than what the guys with the 3.25 stroke are running. You should be making more torque than they are, but with that short stroke the other engines will probably turn tighter than yours will. Don't let that get to you, you will have tons more torque than what they have.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 09, 2010, 10:13:55 am
I will be running a 4 speed setup in a internal brake housing with a original reduction so it will be over driven 38.5%. I was planing on going with a 17-18-19-20 which is like a 22-23-24-25 in a regular box. In our light classes I ran the 25 tooth with my open rpm briggs twin and a set of double cut super lugs.  I still have the tires and will be using them. My briggs only turned 5000-5500. I can use the lower gears hopefully in the heavy classes . My classes will be 900lbs up to 1150lbs
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 14, 2010, 09:24:12 pm
Well thanks to the other fab guys on heymow for giving me the drive to build something I was happy with. I think its is alot easier on the eyes. Its a roller but I have more gussets to install. It is built from 1" o.d. seamless drawn tubing. Pipe bender and a tubing notcher, 6 hours and this is what I have so far. Hope you like it as much as I do.

I used a original cub reduction housing to get it super low. The front tires are not going to be used, I am waiting for my 6" tri ribs to come.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_newframe2.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=newframe2.jpg)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_newframe1.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=newframe1.jpg)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_newframe.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=newframe.jpg)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 30, 2010, 07:18:35 pm
Finally got some of my one off custom go fast goodies in the mail. A guy out of Ohio built this stuff for me. He also made the cam blank wich Vogel currently has.

I tried getting the tape ruler in there so you could see how long the rod is. It is 12 inches in total length.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_agnd.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=agnd.jpg)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Caseracer on March 30, 2010, 07:26:09 pm
That is one long rod.  I hope you don't plan on turning alot of rpm's.

Jack Jones
Hard Case Racing
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 30, 2010, 07:32:19 pm
Oh yeah! 7,000. The deck height height is 12.625. That is why the rod is that long. The engine has a very good rod ratio. 4 inch stroke with a 1.050 CH. I have one of Vogels latest S/A grinds for the cam grind. .340-290-8. It will turn 7k plus, catch it with the clutch and run down the track at 6500. It will turn it. If you new who made the rod you would not doubt it.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on April 01, 2010, 11:07:18 pm
It will/should work. Try and document your first few pulls as detailed as possible, i.e track conditions what gear you ran etc. Your gearing will need to be worked out because of the stroke difference. I really think once you get this lined out you will be satisfied. Ports, valve, and head work will make this motor. The devil is in the details!
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on April 08, 2010, 06:35:53 pm
I received the new heart for my AGND. A nice custom made billet steel cam and gear. Vogel latest and greatest stock altered grind. This will make your 16 run Squidd.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_agndbilletcam.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=agndbilletcam.jpg)

Chuck Vogel put his kohler grind on my AGND cam blank I had made. This is a killer grind for the s/a 16's we'll see how it runs in my wisconsin.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Squidd on April 09, 2010, 02:13:04 pm
Excellent, I finaly got the cam out of donor block will be sending in shortly to be reground.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on April 11, 2010, 10:34:27 am
That cam I had done Randy is prolly a little more than what Chuck will put on a cast cam core, but I am unsure. You do have to use big base lifters with it. A .340 277 grind you can use stock lifters. The grind I had made is the .340-290/.340-286-8.

I did get my steering gear mounted and steering draglink and tie rod completed. It took a couple trys to get the lower mount finished the way I wanted but it turned out great and steers super easy.  I picked up set of sears suburban shell fenders off of ebay. $15 shipped. Almost the same as deere shell fenders. I also scored a pair of 112 deere shell fenders hoods with the hood stays and pivots for the front. I will have to make a dash. Made a trip over to St Johns Mi and picked up my suitcase weights I had made. 330lbs of them. I will take some more pics of them as well. There real nice wieghts, laser cut on a plasma table, 10.8lbs a piece with a handhole in  them. Just a few more little things before final welding and frame paint.

 (http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_steeringonnewtractor.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=steeringonnewtractor.jpg)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on April 11, 2010, 06:38:38 pm
My son Sam's new stock class tractor. 16hp kolher, wheelhorse chassis and JD214 sheetmetal.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_incrediblehulkstocker.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=incrediblehulkstocker.jpg)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_incrediblehulkstocker2.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=incrediblehulkstocker2.jpg)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 02, 2010, 10:52:47 pm
I finally found a hood I like. It is a David Bradley hood.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 08, 2010, 12:09:35 pm
I will be posting some pics of my trans build in a couple weeks. I just ordered my four speed setup from Skip at mid atlantic performance. Cannot beat his prices anywhere. I will have a original reduction wich is 38% over and a 17,18,19,20 gear set. Waiting on my parts from the machine shop. New stainless valves and port work from C-Tech Performance in Wyoming Michigan. I am thinking of running the steel wheels. I think they would compliment the old school look of the hood. Yeah there a little heavy but I will have no problem with weight. Not much more to do to the chassis and I still think I will need all 400lbs of suit case weights to get up to 1050lbs.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Running on Empty on May 08, 2010, 07:40:58 pm
I finally found a hood I like. It is a David Bradley hood.

That is an awsome hood!  I like it!

You dont hear much about David Bradley equiptment anymore.  I have an old David Bradley chain saw.  It runs like a top but holy cow is it heavy!  If you dont have ear plugs your ears are ringing in about 2 minutes.  Guess ergonomics were not a big issue back in the day.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 11, 2010, 06:37:05 pm
I just recieved a big box of four speed parts. 2 sets of gears, 2 forks, spacer kit. Now to put it together. I have a original reduction housing wich is 38% over and a 17,18,19,20 gear set. That works out to a 23,24,25,26 gear set. I will pull from 800lbs to 1150. I think 4 different weight classes. I also picked up a 1.200 stock body reworked kohler carb. Its getting closer.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 17, 2010, 08:21:49 pm
Jrs tractor is done. Stock class machine with a box stock 16hp kohler@4000rpm.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 24, 2010, 09:17:13 pm
I built the seat and fender pan this weekend. Here are a couple pics. I did round all the corners and then welded in some 1/2 round bar along the back of the seat and in the cutout by the shifter. It turned out nice. Also built the clutch and brake pedals. Old school way. 3/4 round tube pedals like the old style street rods with the pedals thru the floor. Those turned out killer. Forgot to take a pic though.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: gtpuller on May 24, 2010, 11:55:19 pm
Looks great man keep it coming!!!!
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 25, 2010, 08:00:46 pm
I just got done grinding the case and assembling my transmission. I have built alot of 2-3 gear swap setups but never a four speed. I bought all my parts from Skip at mid-atlantic. Gears, spacers and forks. Bought julians dvd for assembling the trans. It basically fell together. Just have to drill and tap the fork shafts. After build the four speed with the aftermarket forks I will never monkey around modifing stock forks to work again. Saves SO much time its crazy. I did have to flip the carrier however because my setup drives off of the pto end of crank shaft. All in all alot easier than I thought.

Dennis
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on May 26, 2010, 12:24:20 pm
I would recommend using multiple set screws with either a cup point or a sharp point rather than drilling and tapping the shift rails. Reason is if you do not perfectly get that hole in the correct location then you just lost your shift rails. We modified a set of Julian’s forks before to use 3 set screws instead of the one drilled and tapped through the shift rail. My friend drilled and tapped the shift rail on his first attempt. The following winter we modified the shift fork because he was constantly having problems with the neutral location and consequently getting it stuck in two gears. After we replaced the shift rails and went to using set screws he hasn't had any problems with it.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 30, 2010, 07:39:17 pm
A couple pics
Rear of the tractor with trans mounts and brake caliper setup. The rear has a spool in so only one caliper is needed.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: gtpuller on May 30, 2010, 10:37:35 pm
Did you make the hub/brake hat and what is the caliper from.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 30, 2010, 11:20:55 pm
The brake disk and axle assembly are all one piece. It is from an external brake cub axle. The caliper is also from an external brake cub.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on May 31, 2010, 08:04:13 pm
Another shot with the front weight rack done.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: gtpuller on June 01, 2010, 11:09:06 am
Looks like it is coming together nicely. It has a good look to it!
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on June 08, 2010, 09:49:23 pm
How about some paint.

69 hugger orange with silver flake in the clearcoat.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on June 26, 2010, 06:36:40 pm
its done


It runs great. Going to hook it for the first time june 27th. It sounds like a 50.5 with the altered cam i had ground for it. very choppy idle and quick revs. It should stay together, everything is billet inside.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: gtpuller on June 27, 2010, 10:45:16 am
Looks great like to see some more pix. Very quick build. good luck today
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on July 05, 2010, 09:37:42 am
Didn't get to pull the 27th. Got rained out. Had a double pull this weekend. Did well the second day. I have uncut carlise super lugs in a class with all pulling tires and I got second after pulling off 4 times. I had the only single cylinder. The others were 14hp vannys. The vannys run very well
But were I can hook a 26 tooth gear they need a 24-25 tooth set depending on how built there engines are. I had a blast though. I will get a video up soon.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on August 30, 2010, 09:59:09 pm
Here it is at 1000lbs. S/A cam rules 50cid and under on gas. This is with Lakeshore pullers out of coopersville michigan. It took a few pulls to get it dialed in but man is it strong now. I was asked to move up class in the other club I pull with. This is with a .340 lift vogel steel cam. I run a 4 speed setup with 23-26 gears. This is in a 25t gear in the pull. It was a little nose heavy here.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_DSCN1283.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=DSCN1283.mp4)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on August 31, 2010, 06:25:25 am
heck YES!!  Looks like you have a good one there, stay with it!!
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 07, 2010, 04:34:17 pm
Here is another video. Better, you can see more. This is a 900lbs. 26 tooth gear. I won this class.


(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_agndtractorvideosparta2-1.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=agndtractorvideosparta2-1.mp4)
Here is my cousin on his cub with a vangaurd. It is a 30cid 14hp vanny. I know he has some arc rods, midwest steel flywheel, and a precision cam with ec valvetrain. I dont know anything else about it. It runs real strong for 30cid. I did pull in his class at 900lbs before getting bumped up to the next class.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_rayonthevannycub.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=rayonthevannycub.mp4)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: gtpuller on September 07, 2010, 07:01:57 pm
exciting videos, good lookin tractor you oughta be proud of it.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on September 11, 2010, 08:56:23 pm
Thanks Tim. Both the tractors in the videos have a ton of time into them.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 10, 2010, 11:01:42 am
Havent updated for a while. The season is over. My last hook I was on a very nice power track, I broke the right axle and bent the left side. I plan on more engine work this winter so out with the old carrier and I picked up a dart setup and axle. I have a buddy thats a machinest. I cut a couple sets of tires for him and he is machining the dart parts to fit my cub axle. Going to leave the diff open since the dart parts wont break. I also picked up a new jug for my Wisconsin.  It has a 2.100 intake valve and 1.750 exhaust.  New custom piston by diamond racing pistons. I need to pick up a carb yet. Looking for a 1.200 on gas. Not going to make too many changes on the chassis this winter. Only some powdercoating work and a clutch linkage ratio change for more pedal travel and clutch control. Gonna try some pulling tires. It should run alot stronger this year.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 17, 2010, 11:01:06 am
I picked up an 1.200 gas carb and a MWSC intake for a stock block kohler to a S&S super b. Just going for it and building it up some more. Running the 52cid class at Lakeshore Pullers in coopersville. It is there sportstock class. Flat heads at 52cid on gas against v-twins at 38cid on gas. I might have might cam reground but not sure. When I get the new cylinder put on the flow bench we will see if the extra lift is worth the money. The cam I have is only .340 lift but 290@.050 on the intake. With a 2.100 valve it should move a ton of air. Going to dyno this combo when done. Hoping for mid to upper 50's in hp. If it will make 55hp I can run with the twins.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 18, 2010, 07:23:40 pm
A new go fast part arrived. I also spoke with Tim at isky. He is going to regrind my cam shaft. Cant beat the price to make it better. He has a good grind he is thinking about. .550 lift 300@.050. Building the engine for the 52cid class. All stock wisconsin parts just from different engines. Amazing what a little machine work will get you. 4 inch bore 4.250 stroke.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_sssuperb.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=sssuperb.jpg)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 22, 2010, 07:47:07 pm
Here is the new heart of my agnd. I recieved my new jug in the mail today. 2 stage pipe, big valves, big bore. Realy nice porting. Super good machine work.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_ssagndcylinder.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=ssagndcylinder.jpg)

We werent able to put the 2.100 valve in it. The intake valve had to be moved and could only go to a 1.850. It has a 1.600 exhaust valve as well. Was hoping for a little bigger but did not have the room.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: gtpuller on October 22, 2010, 10:05:08 pm
Thats a pretty big bore ya have in there, do you have a pix of the original bore size, looks like ya can't get it much larger than that! very nice.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 22, 2010, 10:13:07 pm
Original bore is 3.500. It is now 3.957
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 25, 2010, 10:12:35 am
That jug has had the original bore bored out of it. You could see right thru the fins. Then a thick wall pipe pressed in braze welded all together and machined with a thin wall liner. The intake port is in the stock location but ramp and angle has been changed. Thanks Bruce. I picked up my cub trans from my machinest buddy he put the dart carrie and axles in it for me. He is also making the hold down brackets for my cylinder head and machineing the block for lip seals instead of the old cork seals it has now. I will post some pics later
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on October 25, 2010, 12:19:30 pm
This engine should have some big nu*s. Looks like you are getting it where you want it. Before you run the S&S on gas you might touch base with Julian concerning the jetting to try and cover that base and save you some time, he has a lot of experience with that carb.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 25, 2010, 12:32:28 pm
Bruce I have talked with Julian about the carb. He told me where to get the adjustable main jet for it and about where to be with low side jetting. Whats your take on the cam shaft. I am using Isky just because I want to try something different. I am going to have it somewhere between .500-.550 lift. Duration in the 290-300 range at 50 on a 108 lc. With the bore and stroke I am thinking of a power band in the 6500 range. + - .I am thinking mid 50's for hp torque in the high 50's to low 60lbft. What do you think.
I have a couple 38 cid flat tappet cam commands I am going to try and run down this coming summer. This should give them a run.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on October 25, 2010, 02:12:18 pm
I would say you are about right with the hp. numbers, the torque numbers might suprise you and creep up in the mid 60's. You spin that crank that hard and have the cam, ports right then that motor should hang in there pretty deep on the rpm band when the load hits it, so long as the carb. can supply fuel when the rpm's drop. That is the biggest thing when using bigger carbs. is finding one that will supply top end air, but also supply bottom end fuel. With that bore and stroke combo. you may end up R&Ding your own cam. most of the 60 ci. flat singles out there are either using a 3.75" or 3.875" stroke. They were 50 ci. engines that the bore went bad and eventually some clubs made a class for them, some open super stock flatties come from that situation. The commands will out spin you with their rpm band but you will out torque them, some of the command guys really don't load their motor they just crank it as hard as they can and limit the gears so they don't run out of power, drop a gear and spin it harder philosophy.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 25, 2010, 03:05:14 pm
Here are a couple shots of my dart axles. One with the brake disk on the left and standard axle flange on the right. The diff is left open inside. No welded spiders. First time for me ever to have a non locked diff. Looking forward to how it handles. Should be more predictable.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_dartaxle.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=dartaxle.jpg)


(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_dartaxlewithbrakedisk.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=dartaxlewithbrakedisk.jpg)
Bruce do you have any good used 3.937 bore pistons?
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on October 26, 2010, 06:34:06 am
The only one I have is an old "thunder slug" Arias. I bought it new in the mid 90's and actually used it until about 2003. It is heavier than the pistons today. It is a 3.9375" x 0.875". Let me know if you want it, I would recommend a newer lighter unit.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on October 26, 2010, 10:05:26 am
Bruce pm me and let me know what you want for it. If its in good shape I would be interested in it. My machinest can lighten it up some i'm sure.
Bruce based on your experience with the kohlers in big cid form. What is your take on my camshaft numbers. Duration wise too much/not enough. Or try it and see what happens.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: gtpuller on November 10, 2010, 06:02:32 pm
Any progress Dennis?
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on November 10, 2010, 08:54:58 pm
I got a piston. Cam is at Isky. Going with a .535 lift 290@.050 on duration on a 108 lc. The block is getting some machine work. Have a buddy building the tie downs for the head and machining the end plates for lip style crank seals. It has cork crank seals from the factory.  The tie town on the mag side of engine will also have the bolt pattern for midwests crank trigger. I have to have the jug sleeved for the piston yet. I will post some pics when I get it back.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on December 06, 2010, 07:31:08 pm
I dropped the jug of to get sleeved for the piston I bought from Bruce. The shop is also setting my springs up and new ferra valves. I won't use manley ever again. There also building my cylinder head. The big brown truck dropped my cam shaft off tonight as well. I had isky do it. Its very nice.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: gtpuller on December 06, 2010, 08:18:35 pm
cool, sounds like christmas arrived a bit early for you
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Squidd on December 06, 2010, 08:21:57 pm
Pictures...we must have pictures... :drool:
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Big daddy on December 07, 2010, 09:33:54 am
PICTURES, PICTURES, We want video of the runs!!! lol...
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 15, 2011, 01:04:11 pm
Here are a couple update photos. New tires and new fuel tank custom made to my size.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_fueltank.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=fueltank.jpg)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_newtires.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=newtires.jpg)

My jug has new sleeve in it and is bored and ready. The valve are at the machine shop just have to get installed. We went with 7mm stem ferrea valves. Stainless steel and there BIG. I used some vogel prostock springs, and tool steel lifters. The cam is a little low on lift compared to some big cid singles but its a very good grind so I am told. .535 lift, 290@.050 on a 108. Its from isky. Alot of big single cam grinds are in the .6-.700 lift. My block just simply has know where to put that much lift. I had to machine where the lifter bore is already for this cam.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/th_cam3.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/dennisb777777/?action=view&current=cam3.jpg)
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: gtpuller on January 15, 2011, 09:14:41 pm
Great looking tank Dennis. Did you fab it up yourself, have it made or buy it elsewhere. How much fuel does it hold?

Tim
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 15, 2011, 09:25:17 pm
I had it made. It holds a quart and a half. Donny bailey made it. I found him on ebay. He makes tanks to order. His user name is do4uss i believe. Excellent welding and a vented cap. Its 5 inch od and 7 inches long. Has 1/4 inch pipe thread in the bottom.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: gtpuller on January 15, 2011, 09:26:47 pm
Cool yeah it looks great I will check it out thanks

Tim
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 29, 2011, 07:49:51 pm
Went to a friends and checked out my block bottom. He is doing the machine work for me. He is building new seal housings out of 6061 and setting one end up for mwsc crank trigger. I needed the cam pin bore in the block repaired so he sized down to k series cam pin bore and we put some high speed needle bearings in the camshaft. So no more bushings in the cam. Using 1/2 inch drill rod for the cam pin. My buddy sent it out to be hardend. Don't know if it will free up hp but it should a little. The end plates will be crazy awesome when done. Can't wait to show it off.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on January 29, 2011, 07:53:05 pm
PHOTOS,NEED PHOTOS. SOUNDS LIKE A VERY STOUT BUILD.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on January 29, 2011, 08:01:10 pm
As soon as I get it back I will post pics. He said a couple weeks and he will have it buttoned up. He is the guy that did my dart setup too. Its nice to have friends that are machinests. 
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: GRUBDIGGER on January 29, 2011, 08:04:53 pm
 :twothumbsup: :twothumbsup:
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: tractorracer12 on February 03, 2011, 06:09:06 pm
I had it made. It holds a quart and a half. Donny bailey made it. I found him on ebay. He makes tanks to order. His user name is do4uss i believe. Excellent welding and a vented cap. Its 5 inch od and 7 inches long. Has 1/4 inch pipe thread in the bottom.

 He live 2 miles from me. You wont find to many tig welders better than him.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 01, 2011, 07:01:35 pm
I should have my parts in a couple weeks. I will post a bunch of pics as soon as I can. My jug is done. We went with some 7mm valve stems instead of the factory 11/32nd stems. The valves cam from ferrea. I bought a head blank from midwest and just wating for the shop to button that up. My head gasket is a blank piece of .032 copper. I think the bolt pattern and chamber pattern will be cut on a water jet. It will be on the dyno when its finished. It should make power up to and around 71-7200 with the cam and porting. Should make mid 50's for hp and prolly 60+lbft torque. Its got a 4.200 stroke and a 3.937 bore. I can't wait to hear it come to life. Its gonna be a thumper. I bought a set of giant pullers to put the power to the ground. I might have to throw more gear at it. Currently have a 26tooth top gear. Its 1 to 1 in the main box. Summer is on its way. Can't wait.

Dennis
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: brians306 on March 06, 2011, 04:57:29 pm
just so I am following this correctly. When you use a volkswagon flywheel and clutch setup do you not use the engine flywheel or use both.
using both would seem like a lot of rotating mass. just curious.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 06, 2011, 05:00:13 pm
You just use the vw stuff nothing else.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: brians306 on March 06, 2011, 05:17:15 pm
that clears things up.btw that is a really cool machine. I like the AGND
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 15, 2011, 09:28:20 pm
Well another update. I still have no parts from the machine shop. I did however install a new set of gears in my rear axle. I run an original drop box so it has a 38% over drive. Last year I ran a 17-18-19-20 gear set. Wich equals a 23-24-25-26. I never ran the 17-18 gear set so out it came. The 19-20 went to first and second gate and I installed a 21-22. Wich now makes my trans a 25-26-27-28. I figured I have 10 more cid this year, more torque, more cam, bigger valves, better porting and a bigger carb. Should be making 50+ hp and torque like never before so it should have no trouble turning the bigger gear on the out door tracks I pull on. We will see. Cant wait.
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: Squidd on March 15, 2011, 10:04:44 pm
Cool....What size did the tires end up...?
Title: Re: John Deere Pulling Tractor for 010
Post by: FlatheadPuller on March 15, 2011, 10:14:47 pm
84 inch giant pullers.
most the pullers in our s/s class and open are running the same gears. The 28 is a big gear, dont know if it will hook it on anything but a gravel parking lot. And we pull in a couple of those.