Heymow - Lawnmower Racing Forum

General => Coffee Shop => Topic started by: LC on March 17, 2014, 11:21:51 pm

Title: Spec Class
Post by: LC on March 17, 2014, 11:21:51 pm
Are spec classes the future? What are your thoughts? The question has been asked of me several times recently and I don't have the answers, just wondering what everyone thinks. BE NICE, just some food for thought.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: Eatondirt on March 18, 2014, 12:42:43 am
I really hope that this sport never goes there.  Its the being able to think out side the box and try different things that makes this fun.  Who wants to race exactly what everyone else is running. Not me
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: TomL on March 18, 2014, 01:54:41 pm
ModXR is kind of a spec class with the restrictions. Certainly lower cost to build and run.
In PA we have MiniPro, not spec but the rules are designed to keep it even.
Both of these are racer classes, not checkbook classes.
And they attract the most entries.
I'm not against the tech but as the costs go up the entries go down. Happens in all racing not just mowers.

Tom
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: cycloneracer on March 18, 2014, 05:12:35 pm
I'm afraid we have gone to far and can't go back.   The engine rules were put in place to keep tech easy.

I think a spec class would fail.   Heck we have guys complaining now that they have to run a $350 flywheel to run an ungoverned class.   What is a NEW SPEC engine going to cost? 

 That is what would have to be run to make it easy.   Remember the old AP rules?   You had to have the super rare big Tecumseh to run up front.  It would have to be a engine you could go to the store and buy a new one.

I agree the GP class has been a hit and has good participation while the faster more expensive classes have fewer mowers.   But the fast mowers are what bring the fans to the stands.   Always has been that way and always will be.   That is every motorsport.

Paul
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: rook on March 18, 2014, 06:59:49 pm
We run a GP-twin class at our track this is very affordable and the speeds are close to the BP
you get the pull off the corners better than a single sound is better also.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: BIG AL 202 on March 18, 2014, 07:56:21 pm
I agree with you Paul! That would be backing up. We all get "how fast does it go" for a first question out of every spectators mouth! The I-Mow is kinda of the spec class.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: cycloneracer on March 18, 2014, 08:00:12 pm
We run a GP-twin class at our track this is very affordable and the speeds are close to the BP
you get the pull off the corners better than a single sound is better also.

What kind of twins?   

Flatheads or V-twins?   

Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: Jeff Digou (Pitguy) on March 18, 2014, 08:13:16 pm
V-twins    fun class to watch  in Potterville


 
Soltra has some flathead twins in there Modified class.  They run with the v-twins
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: rook on March 18, 2014, 11:14:06 pm
We run v-twins up to 44 cu. in. 3650 max rpm as delivered from factory.
exhaust is open.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: SEAN on March 19, 2014, 08:20:55 am
  We also run a twin class at 3650 And the class is growing. We also run the Mod-XR's (GP) and they the 2 biggest classes we have. The Super Stock class has shrunk since the Mod-XR class cam on are third biggest class is Mod-X. With that being said the Mod-XR (GP) class might be considered a start to a spec class but there are some real fast ones for those who think it out. I personally would not like the sport to go to Spec classes What we have seams to be working. It will be interesting to see how for we go with the twin at 3650 for those of us who are running them. Be easy just my opinion.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: redline on March 19, 2014, 01:41:45 pm
My specs are that my stuff should be like nobody else's. I Have no desire whatsoever to be forced to run the same goverened rpm, engine displacement or gear ratio as everyone else.

Can a goverened/restriced mower be fast? Sure, relatively speaking. But, hit the throttle on that and whoo-hoo, it's like Ethel taking the old Buick off to church on sunday. Now, hit the button on an unrestriced well put together twin, and I dont care who you are, you will not need viagra.

Luckily, our biggest class is the V-twins. We are fortunate in that aspect. And they are good machines as well.

If the rules were to change where I had to start doing the same stuff as everyone else, I think I would take up competative hedge trimming.

And, don't try to tell me that a bone stock goverened twin will give that same hit as a well put together modified one, because thats simply foolish. You may as well try to convince me that your 1980 Toyota Celica with 400,000 miles comes out of the hole better than John Force.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: LC on March 19, 2014, 02:30:48 pm
I think the guys asking me were more thinking about the people who don’t have the ability, time or desire to build a mower from scratch but really like what they see. More like most other motor sports where everything is basically bolt on, very little fabrication compared to what we do in the majority of our classes.  Not so much for cost but maybe more convenience.  If a guy shows up at a mini sprint race and gets excited about getting involved he can without owning a shop full of fabrication tools. No one was suggesting we do away with our heritage and current classes just something a little different for someone who has the desire to drive but not necessarily building something from the ground up.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: more4les on March 19, 2014, 03:47:08 pm
For me the fact that each build is personal is what brought me to this sport. At the same time I know that is what is keeping many away who are interested in it. I love having the freedom of building what I think is the best mower. Others don't have either the ability or access to what is needed to fabricate a race mower. I don't see anyone ready to take on the risk of developing a spec mower to sell and with good reason. Maybe someone will. It would be interesting to see. You would almost need a (mower) factory backed operation in order to keep each machine identical spec wise.

Lester
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: berthyd on March 19, 2014, 07:38:12 pm
Spec class? Cheat class. I have a certain set of skills, that when needed, allow me to wreak devastation upon the innocent and unsuspecting. And I would run that spec class. Tear me down? Hah, tear  everyone down. That'll be real popular when it's beer time.

Number one rule in lawnmower racing: There is no one enforcing the rules.

Bert
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: George Herrin on March 19, 2014, 08:48:25 pm
Number one rule in lawnmower racing: There is no one enforcing the rules.

Bert

Amen and well said!!!
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: Eric (Moose) Mossow on March 19, 2014, 09:56:15 pm
For me the fact that each build is personal is what brought me to this sport. At the same time I know that is what is keeping many away who are interested in it. I love having the freedom of building what I think is the best mower. Others don't have either the ability or access to what is needed to fabricate a race mower. I don't see anyone ready to take on the risk of developing a spec mower to sell and with good reason. Maybe someone will. It would be interesting to see. You would almost need a (mower) factory backed operation in order to keep each machine identical spec wise.

Lester
I think lester hit this nail on the head here. the only way to do a spec class, is to have a large number of identical mowers to build. don't get me wrong here the spec aspect of racing seams very appealing to a new comer. but let me tell u what I have experienced with spec racing. I have raced r/c cars for quite a few years now and every single spec class I have seen has failed there are always guys using motors that have been modified. batteries that have been gutted and better cells put in. it never ends, and it always ends up with someone getting mad because they know they are legal, and they are getting there :censored: kicked by someone who is cheating. and I have seen people get sick of it and just get out of the hobby all together and that is something no one wants.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: cycloneracer on March 19, 2014, 10:57:36 pm


Number one rule in lawnmower racing: There is no one enforcing the rules.

Bert


Unless you run handle bars and make the FX class competitive again.......
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: 2nstoys on March 20, 2014, 08:40:32 pm
Spec class? Cheat class. I have a certain set of skills, that when needed, allow me to wreak devastation upon the innocent and unsuspecting. And I would run that spec class. Tear me down? Hah, tear  everyone down. That'll be real popular when it's beer time.

Number one rule in lawnmower racing: There is no one enforcing the rules.

Bert

That may be at some tracks.

I run tech at our track and I do enforce the rules. I know these engines inside and out and can tell you that the people we run with will not try and cheat. If I find one that tries to push the rules I tell them to fix it or they are not racing. I have the time , the beer,and the tools in my trailer if needed. Just ask anyone in our club if I would do it. I know I have DQ'ed almost averyone at one time or another for something in these classes.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: berthyd on March 20, 2014, 09:00:18 pm
Glenn, question #1. Do you do a full tech at the end of every race day? On every mower? If not people are cheating. Question #2. Do you know the stock cam numbers for every make and model of mower engine running in your stock classes? If you do, you're pretty smart because engine companies do not publish this info. Question #3. Not that I am insinuating anything, but who techs your equipment? Not saying you ever cheated, but it does open up the real possibility.

I maybe was born at night, but it wasn't last night. I've been around racing in general almost my entire life. I've been in lawn mower racing before there was a USLMRA (24 years). Racers cheat. Maybe not all of them, but enough of them do. I can name names of people who cheat(ed) in mower racing, and I can tell you what they did. And you would know some of them.

To deny that there is cheating is lunacy.

Bert
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: more4les on March 21, 2014, 01:16:03 pm
I maybe was born at night, but it wasn't last night. I've been around racing in general almost my entire life. I've been in lawn mower racing before there was a USLMRA (24 years). Racers cheat. Maybe not all of them, but enough of them do. I can name names of people who cheat(ed) in mower racing, and I can tell you what they did. And you would know some of them.

To deny that there is cheating is lunacy.

Bert

Just remember the #1 rule in any racing....It is only cheating IF you get caught. I was taught that by my uncles who raced dirt when I was a toddler. It is also why I try to keep my racing within the more modified classes. I do run a Junior just to keep the numbers (in the class) up but keep that one 100% on the up and up as well as the ModX we run (also built to try and garner interest in the class). If these were the only class I had you can bet you'd better bring a team of tech's to find my "edge".

Lester
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: BIG AL 202 on March 21, 2014, 01:28:47 pm
Do I dare bring up another spec class, IMCA. That worked in to a "buy rule", and nobody wants that!! That class turned into who has the most money class and we DON'T need that.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: redline on March 21, 2014, 01:56:07 pm
Bert really wanted to race the IROC series, but they would not let him enter his Pinto.
Title: Re: Spec Class
Post by: berthyd on March 21, 2014, 06:41:39 pm
They would not let me run my Pinto because of the performance advantage I had. Remember, this was IROC, It's Really Only a Camaro.

Bert