Heymow - Lawnmower Racing Forum

Mower Building / Setup Help => Driveline => Topic started by: George Herrin on November 26, 2005, 10:56:40 pm

Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on November 26, 2005, 10:56:40 pm
Here’s what I do to 700 series trannies, I find them in Junkers and pay as little as possible for them generally horse trade or whatever, Anyways here goes... I first off clean all the benonite grease out of them that’s that black muck that you find when you open them. Clean them thoroughly. Do not put the brass bushings in degreaser or spray them with carb cleaner, they are impregnated with oil and yes I use them. I do not put needle bearings on the shafts. Once everything is clean I inspect all parts, The shift keys get a good look at the engagement tips, if they are chipped or show signs of much wear REPLACE them. Everyone has their own opinion on how many shift keys to use, some like the 4 key shafts, which only come in the newer trannies, and if you order one for the older that’s what you will get they don't make the two keys anymore. I use what’s in them. I have run a two key shaft every since I started running the 700 series Tranny. I have never broken a key. Only had one dnf for a tranny and it wasn't a key I bounced real hard never lifting and ripped the input out but it was two years old. (Race wise). Now look at the inside of all gears off the shift shaft make sure all the corners are square and not chipped or rounded. If everything is in good shape great. If not you will need to replace the damaged gear. Now check the input shaft for wear and the needle bearings, if all is good then I put some automotive grade bearing grease in the input shaft keeping a finger over one end I put the shaft back in which presses the grease into the bearings packing them well. I do not put the O-ring back in I replace it with an oil seal which can be gotten from Tecumseh or even a Napa store. I sometimes put an extra flat washer on before I put the snap ring back on to remove all the play. If you have to replace the input shaft bearings I use an old bearing and grind the ends down to make a spacer between the two bearings to keep them from walking towards each other. They have been known to do this on some cases once bearings have been replaced. Now I do replace the input and bevel gear with steel gears, if the rest are not steel no biggie, that’s what I use, I use what is in it, and have never broke but one gear and it was 5th gear the 19 tooth 5th gear counting the one on the shift key shaft. I also remove the reverse chain and sprockets. I do not put spacers back in their place. Everything will work fine without them. Now I gear to race in third, which both gear’s in most trannies especially a 5 speed will count 25 teeth each. If you forget which gear matches what, no worries the two from each shaft will always add up to 50 teeth. Now I add a touch of the bearing grease on the ends of the shafts before I put the brass bushings on. This gives a little lube before the oil gets to them. Once everything is assembled and before you put the top case on put some perma-gasket of your choice on the bottom case to seal the top to it. I also lift each shaft and put a little under each bushing and then a film on top of each, only if it’s an open case type end though, this is one less place the oil can leak out. While that’s setting up add app. 8 ounces of gear lube, type and weight is your choice, I use 80/90 Wal-Mart brand. If you have no way of measuring the amount of oil, with the case level, simply add enough oil to cover the input gear. Now I use all 6-mount holes to bolt it down and the whole I cut for the input shaft is a very snug fit. I only use 1/4-inch thick plate for a tranny plate. Now for the do it yourselfer E.C. Distributing has a cnc precision cut trans plate that will fit most anyone’s application in building their race mower. They sell for 55.00. They also have an idler sprocket bracket assy. Bolts to the bottom of the trans plate and can bolt a idler of your choice to it. They have two plates specific dimensions are 10.5 wx8 and 13wx8. The first being designed to be an exact fit for a Murray wide body and the second being a direct fit for the box frame MTD chassis. Both are universal and usable in many chassis setups. They come with a bushing that once you bolt the tranny in place it slides over the input shaft centering itself on it and supports it all the way to the base of case. You weld it in place and end result you have one heck of a tranny plate. That pretty much sums what I do to them simple, cost efficient except the two gears that you replace, and works very well. I don't hot rod my mowers nor run them on pavement very much. And if the motor is running, and I am not moving, the clutch is in. Look at it this way its less wear and tear on the tranny pulleys and belts, basically the whole drive train. Now below is all the part numbers for everything I use in or on the tranny from Tecumseh.
700 series parts and no.
7 tooth sprocket      786077
8 tooth sprocket      786047
10 tooth sprocket    786076
12 tooth sprocket    786095
15 tooth sprocket    786111
Steel bevel gear       778154
Steel input gear      778153
Shifter key            792089A
Flanged Bushing    780105A
Input oil seal               788083
Input Needle Bearings 780086A
Input Shaft   776135

These are all Tecumseh part no. There is an after market oil seal also it is a Federal Mogul no. 340387 you can obtain at most car parts stores i.e. Napa etc and CR number is 6106
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on November 27, 2005, 11:09:26 am
Excellent post on the 700 buildup...especialy having the part numbers all in one spot.. 8)

Question do you do anything to the "top" half of the case, like run a strap over the top mounting lugs and down to plate to help stabilize the aluminum case...

Or is there no worries in the upper case flexing or lifting if the lower is securely mounted...?
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on November 27, 2005, 11:13:41 am
I can see "sandwiching" the trans for stability (over top and down to plate), but I have seen guys bolting the top of trans to "tunnel" or seat mount with no direct connection to lower plate...

Seems like with frame/body "twist" this would cause more movement and binding than it prevents...???
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on November 27, 2005, 11:36:18 am
The very first bp build I did I did that. Was a terrible pain if you ever had to work on it or service it. So the next and every other since then including my two time championship bp's I have not done this. If the threads in the bottom case are good and you remove the reverse chain and sprockets this will not happen. The only time I have ever seen the top case damaged was when a chain broke wrapped itelf around the sporckets imploding it from the inside out. Another time 5th gear broke and broke out the case halves in the gear area. Both times though it never pulled the case screws out. AND if you use an E.C. Distributing tranny plate with the lower input case support you will have nothing at all to worry about.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowerracer313 on January 02, 2006, 07:45:00 pm
hey guys
was runnin my mower and toasted the shift keys   does anyone know where to get them cheaper than 10 bucks a piece
just wonderin
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on January 02, 2006, 08:24:47 pm
Best I've found was $7.95 if you buy 20 at a crack...

Talk to Eric H. he goes thru a ton and asked me to find a bulk rate...

If he's ready to order maybe you/we could split a pack...

I only need a pair for "spares"...
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mightymowe on January 02, 2006, 11:30:42 pm
George I was wondering from your write up at the top I understand that you dont shift when you race. do you just change pulleys for different tracks to get the gear that you want. That is what I do and it is a lot easier on the drive I feel. You got to bring it home or you cant be first.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 03, 2006, 12:06:34 am
Nope I don't shift and I don't change pullies. I run a 8 on motor a 5 on tranny, and 12 on tranny to a 44 to 48 on axle. If and I say If I need to make a change I do it on the axle sprocket. Nine times outa 10 though I never do that. The setup I have is generally so close at any given track I go to I do not worry about changing the sprocket. Keep in mind this is on my BP. But the same went for the SP also. I have never had but 1 tranny caused DNF in 6 years. only 2 chain dnf. The rest were belts.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowerracer313 on January 16, 2006, 09:38:01 pm
hey george does peerless make any sprockets bigger that a 15 tooth??
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 16, 2006, 09:44:29 pm
No but if you have an aps catolog go to page 206 look at the bottom left there are sprockets with 3 bolt holes. They go from 17 tooth to 27th they are aluminum. You can use an azuza steering wheel hub bolt the sprocket to it and it fits the splines of the tranny.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowerracer313 on January 16, 2006, 10:44:51 pm
THANKS GEORGE
Title: Which way?
Post by: Red Horse Racing on January 28, 2006, 01:18:07 pm
Which I could figure out how to delete this message!!!!  I done figured it out.

Dale, in Michigan
Title: 700-078
Post by: Red Horse Racing on January 28, 2006, 02:26:17 pm
So I see one output is for the brake, the other for the drive sprocket.  According to the manual, makes no difference which one is which.

NOW!  These transmissions are real simple on the inside, but the grease, oh the grease!!!  Previously everything I've had apart used gearoil.  It was amazing!   LOL

The specific question I now have relates to the 700-078 transmission.  Not my first, or even second choice, but out of stock and back orders can do that to a guy.

According to the schematic, the large bevel gear is number 778154.  The gear commonly known as a steel gear, though it's not listed as such on this particular schematic.

The input pinion gear is part number 778176 and is listed as steel, though it's not the common number used of 778153.   For insurance, I ordered the 778153 to make sure I had the steel gear.  Only it's at least 50% taller than the 778176 stock gear.  Unless there is some compression trick I don't know, it isn't a gonna fit!

WHAT do I have????   Should I just remove the chain and sprockets, ALL that grease, switch to a seal on the input shaft, put oil in and run  it?  Right now, I don't  see any other way.

Just for kicks, it does have 4 shift keys!  Some parts of this little gem appear to be pretty tough.

Dale, still transimission prepping in Michigan
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowerracer313 on January 30, 2006, 08:48:41 pm
does anyone know what the part number for the long input shaft fot the 700 is
wantin to build a spare but havent seen the long shaft
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 31, 2006, 12:19:31 am
Dale the original input gear will have 2 thrust washers and a bearing under it. remove one washer and the bearing and it will fit. All have a 42 tooth bevel gear whether steel or stamped. The pinions are 14 tooth with some models having the shorter with washers and bearing. I do not run that and have never had a problem. Now as for the reverse gears and chain, toss them out. remove ALL grease add oil seal and 8 onces of oil and go racing. So schematics will list the input as steel and not the bevel as steel. If one is steel they both are. SO the original parts will work just fine or do as I listed above and the new input will work also.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 31, 2006, 12:30:18 am
Brian the 776257 is 8.103 inches long how long do you need. There are many different sizes.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowerracer313 on January 31, 2006, 06:04:43 am
didnt know there were so many different ones
have to measure up the old one
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Red Horse Racing on January 31, 2006, 07:18:35 pm
THANKS George!  That is exactly what's there.

Sounds like either way I'm good.  If one is steel, both are steel, I might as well go with what's there.  Kinda like the idea of the bearing in there whether it helps or not.

The chain and sprockets are going, just as you mentioned.  I've seen you write that several times in various places.   Friday I'll be getting some sealer and oil to put this bad boy together!

While I'm at it, your tranny plate looks SWEET!!!!   It won't be hard to tell the stuff I fabbed up with my limited available resources, and the stuff I bought.  LOL

Dale, always grateful for advice in Michigan.  If you ever wanna know about a Wheel Horse, ask, that's my area!!   LOL
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 31, 2006, 11:14:34 pm
Glad I could help and you like the plate. Be sure to spread the word.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Red Horse Racing on February 07, 2006, 06:10:05 pm
My luck never ceases to amaze me.

This 700-078 transmission I bought has an output shaft number 776421 with nine splines, as opposed to the apparently more common output shaft number 776217 with it's much finer spline setup.  You know, the one that fits the sprockets George listed and I bought along with the transmission.

To change the output shaft, assuming this is a straight swap, will cost over $80 with shipping.  That's over half what I paid for the dern thing.

Before I just go ordering up sprockets or shafts willy nilly hoping to get something that will fit, does anyone know the sprocket part numbers that will fit this beast????  Are there any outside sources that might have them?

Dale, scratching his bald spot balder in Michigan
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 07, 2006, 06:56:53 pm
Dale there are no sprockets that will fit the 9 spline shaft. Find some old junker tranny's and rob the shaft they are all interchangeable. nly difference are some are 2 key shafts some are 4 key.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: pusstang on February 09, 2006, 12:35:20 am
Where is your tranny plate located? i don't see it on arc but i might ne blind!
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 09, 2006, 01:13:51 am
I do not have a picture of it posted anywhere I will try to do so tomorrow night but no promises. Very Busy
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: pusstang on February 09, 2006, 01:24:34 am
Appreciate it! and where is your clutch located? Can't find it either
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 09, 2006, 07:31:34 am
you can look at some builds ai have done at www.geocities.com/herrinmowersports or www.gecities.com/georgenfive this will show some clutches i have built. Here at EC we do have one built for sale as of yet.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: pusstang on February 10, 2006, 12:32:09 am
How do your clutches actually work? Do they loosen the belt and let everything loose power or is it a setup that a clutch atcually throws and the pulley is disengage like on a dirtbike (how the chain continues to move and it isn't loosened allowing everything to slip persay the sprocket/pulley actually disengages!)

Could you possibly use this clutch?

http://www.noram-clutch.com/clutchtrilobe.html

Or is another clutch better? If so please leave a URL Address and a brief description if the URL doesn't take you directly to the page!![/url]
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 10, 2006, 09:33:57 am
All classes except FX has to use an oem style belt acutated clutch. It tightens and loosens the belt to alow it to slip or not slip. The noram mini cup clutch is what I use on my FX
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: pusstang on February 10, 2006, 11:53:30 am
George for right now I will not be able to race but I am building 2 machines one for my cousin that will go about 22 mph and the other for me. these machines will not be raced at this point and time, but i want to learn and build these 2 machines as a starting point and to be able to work out all the kinks and then build me a baddd racing mowchine!!! So i guess all the info you can provide me doesn't have to be based on USLMRA but if it is I guess it needs to be F/X based! Appreciate it

Oh yeah where is that clutch located on the web? I went to their website and couldn't dind the mini cup! And how do you engage and dissengage the clutch? Do you use a pedal or handle or is it diff.???

Oh yeah you can visit my other topic in Driveline under the gearing topic and see what i want out of my mower at this point in time!!! And I wouldn't mind going 90 the 60+ number is something i pulled out my head. I have raced cars at over 145+ mph!!

Appreciate it all!!!

Thanks
Stan Reaves
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: pusstang on February 10, 2006, 12:06:05 pm
George it'll be ran based on a 14.5 OHV with everything done to it except crank. There will be no governor except for what i govern with my hand/foot from a read off of my tach! I want this thing to squill, burn, slide, drift, haul butt, maybe even "cat walk" it!  Does the clutch atctuate itself or do you relieve a pedal or handle?? Or is it like slow build up the boom! Because i wouldn't mind have like a motorcyle or racing fourwheeler clutch. Has that been done?

Thanks
Stan Reaves
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 10, 2006, 02:16:11 pm
Its a centrifucal clutch rpm activated. If you want to squill burn out drift and kick but you might be best with a car. Sounds safer anyways. A mine has close to 50hp and it is a hand full. It dies all you want but if you did it all the time it would get expensive in repair cost's.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: IBuiltmine-o1oo on February 10, 2006, 02:39:20 pm
if your not going to race it, just ahve fun, thenput a big ol single cyl motorcycle engine in it!
I have an old 4 wheel harley golf kart with a KZ 750 4 cyl shaft drive in it. Its great fun!!
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: jeffescortlx on February 10, 2006, 03:23:19 pm
Quote from: "George Herrin"
Now as for the reverse gears and chain, toss them out.

I guess A/P guy's cant do that since it must utilize a shiftable lawn mower transmission?
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: IBuiltmine-o1oo on February 10, 2006, 05:16:57 pm
it says shift, not reverse. Ive got a couple 4 speed trannys off of an old fiberglass bodied international rear engine mower that has no reverse from the factory. It just needs to shift, not really need to shift to reverse.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 10, 2006, 07:11:54 pm
Jeff no one using the 700 series tranny that I am aware of uses the reverse. If the chain breaks and it will, it wraps around the shafts and totally destroys the tranny. It only has to be shiftable in gear and outta gear.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: jeffescortlx on February 10, 2006, 07:19:27 pm
hua, ok.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowerracer313 on February 19, 2006, 10:00:21 pm
hey george
do ya ever helicoil the threads in the bottom case if the threads as lookin bad or is it better to find another case
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 19, 2006, 11:42:12 pm
depends on how desperate I am I have done a couple and held up well.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mightymowe on April 02, 2006, 07:53:39 pm
I was wondering why you don't use needle bearings on the output shaft?  How often you have to change the bushings?
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on April 14, 2006, 12:05:06 am
Sorry I havn't answered this sooner not sure why I didn't see it. I never used the needle bearings because of the extra expense in the machining to make them fit AND I have never had a bushing fail and change them once a season (during the off time) And why fix what isn't broke. I have Many feature wins multiple championships and 6 years of racing and can count the broke trannies on one hand. So you see why I never machined one for the needle bearings on the output shaft. I have run a couple with the ball bearing like a 700-039 and those work well but they are made that way from the factory!!!!
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: nor66 on May 12, 2006, 11:30:25 pm
Does Tecumseh have a web site or a # ? :?:
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowdak1 on May 13, 2006, 04:10:52 am
http://www.odref.com/peerless/

This one is our go to around here, most comprehensive list of Peerless parts you'll find.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: nor66 on May 14, 2006, 10:19:47 pm
Thank you very much I will bookmark that one!!!! :P
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: nor66 on May 29, 2006, 11:05:27 am
George Iwas reading thru your article again and in there you say you gear to race in third. Does that mean you swap gears around in there? Wasn't sure what you meant there. :?:
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on May 29, 2006, 01:40:40 pm
Third is "generally" (but not always) a 1:1 ratio on counter shafts ...meaning the gears are the same size...(tooth count)

So you not overdriveing or under driveing "inside" the case..and end up with a true 3:1 from input to output shaft...(bevel input to spur)
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Gene Morrison on July 16, 2006, 10:48:31 pm
Do you get these 700s out of a rear engine mower ?

And is that the best for a S / P or will a transaxle work just fine ? Thinking a S / P will be my next mower after a year or two of IMOW.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: IBuiltmine-o1oo on July 17, 2006, 06:46:35 am
They stick these 700s in all kinds of stuff! Ive found them in walk behind mowers before!!
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 17, 2006, 02:30:10 pm
nor66 Squidd explained it pretty good.
Title: aps catalog
Post by: thenewguy on July 21, 2006, 01:15:51 pm
where can i get an aps catalog?
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowdak1 on July 21, 2006, 04:07:05 pm
You can download it for free... (http://www.apskarting.com/catalog.html), contact them and have them mail you one, or you can browse the site and order on-line.

Complete catalog takes a little over a minute on a kick-:censored: DSL connection, with screaming computer.... I wouldn't go there on dial-up y'all! It's a 25.5mb file!! Dial-up you're talking HOURS!!


You might also want to check out the kart goodies at ARC (http://www.arcracing.com/)! Especially since they're the ones footing the bill and donating the time to manage our little forum here!  ;)

ARC also carries a nice line of products specifically for the lawn mower racer; dependent upon what you're looking for they may honestly be your best bet.
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Chris on September 12, 2006, 01:40:43 pm
Quote from: "George Herrin"
Jeff no one using the 700 series tranny that I am aware of uses the reverse. If the chain breaks and it will, it wraps around the shafts and totally destroys the tranny. It only has to be shiftable in gear and outta gear.


Well reading this whole article, I was never aware of this defect in the 700. Using my machine off-road constantly (its only ever not in the woods on the trip to the woods and the trip back :lol:) I absolutely need reverse. Now you have me worried when I disassemble this thing to use gear oil, that I'm going to put it in reverse and the transmission will grenade. This poor little toro is always under extreme amounts of stress because It's pretty much used as a towing & recovery mower. It's actually gotten to the point where I've been considering a winch for the front and a boom for the rear! :lol:
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowdak1 on September 12, 2006, 08:04:45 pm
I've been considering one of those for the track, just for show purposes! Flashing yellow light on the hood, little boom on the rear with a winch, maybe a set of dollies. Or, a few counter weights on the front end and a set of forks to slide under the broked one.

Just haven't figured out where I'd put all of it in the trailer!
Title: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Chris on September 12, 2006, 08:23:28 pm
Quote from: "mowdak1"
I've been considering one of those for the track, just for show purposes! Flashing yellow light on the hood, little boom on the rear with a winch, maybe a set of dollies. Or, a few counter weights on the front end and a set of forks to slide under the broked one.

Just haven't figured out where I'd put all of it in the trailer!


 :lol: I've already abused mine twice this week. Yesterday I had to pull my girlfriends dad up the hill, because all his would do was spin. I had to tow him  3 times. The 3rd time was hysterical, he was trying to go up the hill, and ended up sliding down backwards at like 10MPH totally out of control. he ended up jacknifing the mower and the trailer. I was laughing so hard I fell off my mower! :lol:

Had to tow the Wizard up the same hill today. Was going up the hill and my belt started to smoke. I knew the belt was on it's way out because it was shredding. I had her in 1st, so I just went wide open and let out the clutch. I was slowly going up the hill in this huge whiteish/blueish cloud of smoke and was at the top when the belt snapped and I went down the hill backwards. Ended up pulling that up the hill with the Toro too!

I already have an oldschool yellow revolving light from the 70's that would fit perfect on there (since that's from the 70's too! :lol:), just gotta think up some sort of boom or something for the rear of it.  :twisted:
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: coreyk on November 09, 2006, 09:21:56 pm
where do i get the input oil seal?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on November 09, 2006, 11:37:38 pm
useing the tecumseh number any mower shop that can buy tecumseh parts. If using the federal mogul # then Napa or any good auto motive store should be able to cross it and get it.
Title: mtd mower's
Post by: maddawg210 on December 04, 2006, 01:46:04 am
  George i see you afre running an MTD style mower i have several of these and wish to build racers out of them ..... I only race here in Louisiana and we lower them to the ground and make them 40 inches wide for all classes seems to make them safer from rollover i woul like to know how you got yours so low ?

I have several AYP models (Craftmans) and they were easy to do but have had trouble with mtd's
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: matt25001149 on December 04, 2006, 01:55:02 am
go to his build thread located here: http://www.heymow.com/index.php/topic,1613.0.html
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on December 04, 2006, 07:37:20 am
Thanks Matt!!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY-quick question
Post by: Flipper on December 09, 2006, 08:58:02 am
Gents, the removal of reverse on a 700?(700-039).....is this due to high failure or the being the weak point of the tranny?........and is it OK to leave the reverse gears in without the chain?
....or, can you point me in the right direction to find the thread that answers this.

I found a spare 700-026 that is a 5spd, it has the 36 fine spline shaft but does not have the ball bearings on the output shaft (like the 039), it has 4 bronze bushings. Should I toss it? or possibly prep it and use it?, with that said, does a 700 trans having the ball bearings mean it is "Heavy Duty"?

Thanks for the advise
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mightymowe on December 09, 2006, 10:35:33 am
I believe reverse failure is due to the chain spinning extra fast the other direction when you increase the forward speed,gear lube should help this but it is going to fail sometime when you overspeed them.Just removing the chain is all we did and it works good.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on December 09, 2006, 10:50:35 am
The problem with reverse is the chain. When it not if but when it breaks it will wrap around the internal parts exploding the tranny from the inside out. Remove gears and chain. Why carry the extra drag. You do not have to put spacers in their place at all. As for the 039 and the ball bearings!!! While the bearings offer less rolling resistance I have had to replace the input bearings more in those trannys than those tranny with 4 brass bushings. As a matter of fact I havn't used a 039 in 3 years. All of mine use the brass bushings. Show very little wear at all if any in one season of racing. Have run for two seasons without replacing them. So use it. Its just as good as any.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on December 10, 2006, 11:34:14 am
Thorough cleaning yes, remove reverse and chain yes, seals lube and bushing care yes...

The 800 is pretty much a 700 with diff and axles added..
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on December 10, 2006, 11:38:39 am
Your best bet would be a heavy weight 90+ gear lube or the "OO" grease if you can find it...
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on December 10, 2006, 11:44:17 am
If your "race prepping" it, you don't need reverse, unless this is for an IMOW, Stock or otherwise limited class...
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on December 10, 2006, 11:58:50 am
Won't hurt anything...At least Not if your not planning on going fast...
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on December 10, 2006, 12:03:07 pm
You remove the reverse chain and gears as a "precautionary" measure...and to reduce drag, wear and heat buildup...

If the chain breaks at speed it will bind up and destroy your tranny/transaxle...

Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: TooTall on January 01, 2007, 10:24:47 pm
I was wondering if anyone vents their transmissions?I build 4wheelers for Polaris and notice all the gearboxes are vented to prevent air/oil expansion as they heat up and was wondering in the same thing would help keep gear oil from leakin at the seals on a racing mower tranny?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 01, 2007, 10:43:46 pm
I do where the nuetral switch normally goes.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: tractorracer12 on January 01, 2007, 11:51:36 pm
George could you please show a picture so i could see how you do that. Thanks
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowerracer313 on January 22, 2007, 07:58:12 am
hey george
i was looking through the aps catalog at the aluminum front sprockets
and see there is two different ones one for a steel hub and one for an aluminum hub   which one bolts to the steering wheel hub??
thanks for the help
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 06, 2007, 11:54:13 pm
They both should bolt to the steerinjg wheel hub. Sorry I didn't answer sooner not sure how I missed this.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 06, 2007, 11:55:56 pm
E.C.Distributing will be selling brand new 700-023 transmissions raced prepped and ready to go. Add gear lube sprocket and go race. Price will be 250.00
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on February 07, 2007, 04:47:23 pm
George, is the 700-023 a 4 or 5 speed?, and will it come with a fine-36spline output shaft?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: allen minaker on February 07, 2007, 04:51:03 pm
Will they take a trans in as a core and if so can you get a price they will give for exchange ?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: cycloneracer on February 07, 2007, 08:12:49 pm
That's a smoking deal on a new tranny.  The steel gears are over $100 themselves.  (or atleast that's what I had to pay for them!)
Paul
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 07, 2007, 08:47:39 pm
No trade ins we got a sweet deal on these and so my boss is relaying that to the racers as long as the supply lasts. Al sorry no trade ins. Joey yes its a 5 speed. Its a lower geared tranny meaning most 5's third is race gear (25/25). The 700-023 4th is race gear 25/25. And yes they are the fine spline. BUT listen guys do not trhow those 9 thick spline shafts away. We are making a hub with interchangeable gears for that shaft and the 32 fine spline. We also have a billet 4" and 5" pulley for the 5/8 shafts found on the 700 series and most transaxles.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on February 07, 2007, 10:34:47 pm
George, Put me down for one 700-023 5spd fine spline(36)tranny!

.....this is a no-brainer............a great deal.......




Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mower_mulisha on February 07, 2007, 11:51:01 pm
Now do these EC transmissions fit the steering wheel hubs?  Where do you get the sprockets for these trannies if it's not the steering wheel/shaft hubs?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on February 08, 2007, 08:02:10 am
Darrin, Pretty sure they would fit. The -023 uses a #776217 output shaft which is 36-fine spline, same as the peerless disc brake we use to make countersprockets with and the will fit the standard steering hub. George will confirm...I have an old spare 700-026,(5 spd) .....the 023 should be close if not the same, they both use the same output shaft. 

I have looked around, this is a super sweet deal on this tranny, especially since it is new, allready prepped.......I can't tell you how much money I have lost by buying ebay tranny's....got lucky a few times, but most have been trash...end up putting the same amount of money in them that I thought I would have saved. .......My local supplier wants $270.00 for an 023 that's new/stock........
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 08, 2007, 01:48:24 pm
The steering wheel hubs fit all the fine spline. BUT I do not like them too soft in my opinion.

Joey has Darlene here at the office contacted you.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 08, 2007, 01:51:51 pm
Transmission are in. Will clean and prep today or tomorrow.
Joey we got your info so go ahead and chrage it to you and send it out!!!! Let me know.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on February 08, 2007, 03:37:18 pm
Good to go George!......got your EC Clutch Pulley assy yesterday....sweet....will send pic's of my CP build soon............(or my attempt at a build) LOL
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowfast1 on February 11, 2007, 04:02:26 pm
George? are the part no.s you list in the first part of the thread for sprockets, the 32 spline sprockets?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 11, 2007, 07:32:56 pm
Yes they are they do not make any for the 9 spline. EC is but not sure of ready date.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowfast1 on February 11, 2007, 07:36:40 pm
Ok, Thanks a bunch!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: LawnMowerKing on February 26, 2007, 04:28:55 pm
I like how you put that!
its very helpful.




Where exactly would you find a 700 Trans.


Thanks.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Chris on February 27, 2007, 09:57:26 am
Most rear engine riders have a 700 in them. If you have a local lawnmower junkyard, just go and have a field day!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowerracer313 on May 28, 2007, 11:08:57 pm
Hey guys
By chance does anyone know the part numbers for the 13 and 14 tooth sprockets for the 700
Thanks
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on May 29, 2007, 12:01:01 am
Brian tecumseh does not make a 13 or 14. E.C. Distributing does make a hub that is a fine spline or the course spline that will use our 12,13,14, and 15 tooth sprockets.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: redline on June 05, 2007, 01:33:41 pm
Just an FYI, the input seal part number 340387 cross references to napa part number 6105, hopefully this will save someone the run around that I just went through!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: SeanStanley on June 05, 2007, 03:01:58 pm
 :worried:
today i was prepping my tranny, and i know your not supposed to clean the brass bushing with anything...but.... :doh:
i was washing out the gears today when i looked over at my bushings that i taken off, and realized there was only 3!, i left the one on before the output sprocket.  :noplease:
is it ok that one was in parts washer?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on June 05, 2007, 06:15:59 pm
Not really...or we wouldn't have been saying not to do it in the first place...
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowdak1 on June 05, 2007, 07:51:54 pm
Somewhere around here George explained how to treat them again...

You'll need a cook stove OUTSIDE; I'm thinking the Coleman camp stove would likely work good for this. And, you'll need a pot; NOT one of mom's pots outta the kitchen either mind you. Fill the pot with enough 30w motor oil to cover the bushings. Dependent upon the size of your pot anywhere from 1/2 quart (if you use a really small pot) to 1/2 gallon (if you use a really big pot), and cook them over medium heat for an hour or two, or four. As best I recall he said you just want to get it smokin, then back off on it a little. Not sure what temp on that would be on 30w, cooking oil you'd be at about 375* there, 375* - 400* it'll start smoking on you. With 30w I'm guesing maybe a little higher than that. After you've cooked them thoroughly, let them cool in the oil. Then reinstall them.

Again... Do NOT do this in the house, do NOT use a good pot.

If you do either of those we, will not be held liable for your being homeless!

Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: SeanStanley on June 05, 2007, 09:17:45 pm
Just an FYI, the input seal part number 340387 cross references to napa part number 6105, hopefully this will save someone the run around that I just went through!

does that mean i can go to a nappa, give them the part number, and they give me the part?
that would be really cool, not having to pay for shipping.
and BTW, do i only put an seal under the pinion gear?, or do i put them on both sides of the input shaft?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on June 05, 2007, 11:09:51 pm
the seal goes on the outer end of input shaft only.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: redline on June 06, 2007, 08:56:13 am
does that mean i can go to a nappa, give them the part number, and they give me the part?
that would be really cool, not having to pay for shipping.
and BTW, do i only put an seal under the pinion gear?, or do i put them on both sides of the input shaft?

Yes, go to napa, tell them the pat number, they hand you the seal, or order it if they don't stock it.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: matthewdll on June 21, 2007, 03:13:09 pm
Any word on EC supplying the 9 spline sprockets yet?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on June 21, 2007, 07:29:45 pm
We have them on the shelf Have hubs for both the 9 slpine and the 32 fine spline. And sprockets to fit in 12, 13, 14, and 15 tooth.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: BriggsandStratton1218 on June 22, 2007, 10:09:22 pm
the seal goes on the outer end of input shaft only.

Wait so your putting it below the bearings?? I put mine above them right under the gear and its leaking slightly could this be why??  Could you run a double seal??  And does EC  sell seals??
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: redline on June 22, 2007, 10:20:24 pm
Wait so your putting it below the bearings?? I put mine above them right under the gear and its leaking slightly could this be why??  Could you run a double seal??  And does EC  sell seals??

CORRECT, the seal goes into the lower case half, below the bearings. That way the lube gets under the input gear and lubes those also. If you re-read George's first post here, I believe he clearly states this....

I went back and re-read it myself, George says to replace the rubber o-ring on the input shaft with a seal. Meaning the seal goes in the same place as the o-ring was previously.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on June 23, 2007, 11:22:47 pm
Yes but To clarify some newer models even have an o-ring under the gear also TOSS that one and replace the one below the bearings next to the outsnap ring with the oil seal thus allowing oil to bath the bearings also which is a must for extended life at race speeds.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: BriggsandStratton1218 on June 24, 2007, 10:35:15 am
Ohh well i put mine up above the bearings and just packed them full of grease, guess im getting a new seal now.  Could i run a double seal setup(two seals stacked up) for extra leak protection??
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: cycloneracer on June 25, 2007, 08:46:16 pm
One seal is enough, if you install the shaft correctly!  I had a leaky tranny, two to be exact!  I can't take credit for this info it is Georges, but you have to take off the input gear and push the shaft up thru the seal and bearings, install the gear and snap ring.  Holds oil like is suppose to if you do it this way.

Mine don't leak anymore!!!!  Thanks George!

Paul
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on June 25, 2007, 09:15:45 pm
Welcome Paul, While its more work to do it this way it pays for it self to do right the first time.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: grassthrasher on June 25, 2007, 09:21:59 pm
hey George I used your method for packing the bearings and it works great  :woo:
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on June 26, 2007, 07:42:01 am
Thats why I posted the article so others would have the knowledge to do it right. Good deal.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: cycloneracer on June 26, 2007, 09:02:29 am
George,
How many races do you get out of a input shaft?  I just replaced my bearings and it seems to still have some play in the shaft.  Is there a way to check the wear, I know the wear will be very slight, but what are the tolerances?
Also shift keys,  mine were pretty beat up after 1 season of racing.  Is this normal?  What causes the wear on the keys?  Is there something I'm doing to create excessive wear?

How often do you open your tranny up?  I think I am overdoing it a bit on my maintenance!

Thanks
Paul
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on June 26, 2007, 09:36:38 am
I open my tranny when or if it breaks, OR twice a season. I.E. start and half way thru the season. Then I go thru it in the off season. I have go all season without pulling the input shaft. If it doesn't leak oil its fine. When the wear gets to the point it wears a seal then I go into it. It isn't uncommon to see a tiny bit of side to side movement in the input shaft. As for keys. I was checking my SP about every 6 races. Reason being I started in first shifted thru to 3rd and on restarts I went down to 2nd then shifted back to third. Shifting is HARD on the keys. On and off the throttle as we are is hard on them. Hail everything we do is hard on them. These little gear boxes are only rated for 12ft lbs of input torque. I have thrown as much as 70 at them and they live long time. AND another thing. I only use 2 key shift shafts. I find the keys actually hold up longer. BUT I am known for pampewring my tranny's and very seldom do I do abusive things to them. Well the weekend I blew my motor I was doing burnouts on pavement. (Not at atime of Blowing motor) ON an input shaft upon inspection, If I feel a ridge of any kind with my fingernail where the bearings ride or see pitting which they also do, I change the shaft. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: cycloneracer on June 26, 2007, 11:24:31 pm
I guess I'm over doing it then.  My shaft is fine, I guess.  The wiggling just makes me nervous!  I never shift and don't abuse it.  So the shift keys kind of threw me.

Thanks for the info!

Paul
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on July 06, 2007, 10:25:44 am
Hey guys, There was mention before about just using two shift keys in the 700 tranny’s. I there any advantage over this?, or disadvantage?
I would think it would make shifting a little easier with less resistance rather than using 4 keys. ….was just curious, getting ready to crack open and fix an -039
and figured I would ask.  I blew my 039 July 4, Output shaft broke in half and the input shaft came right out too…..Hail…if yer gonna do it, …do it right!
Threw a spare in and at least, I finished the feature.

George, was an absolute pleasure, hangin, joking, and racing with you, can't wait to hook up again for some great laughs. ……and to get lapped again! LOL!

....this time the steak dinner is on me!

Thanks for your help and advice.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: BriggsandStratton1218 on July 06, 2007, 10:29:03 am
I think the 2key shafts were preferrable but i cant remember why.  I know its less shift keys to replace.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Mowindown on July 06, 2007, 05:10:46 pm
I think the 4 shift keys are better.  The shift keys are what actually locks the gear in so if you have two keys and big hp like I think you have there is a greater chance that you will round, strip, or break a shift key.  So four keys are twice as good as two. As for the easy of shifting I don't know about that don't think there is any difference in shifting.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowdak1 on July 07, 2007, 12:34:33 am
I think George Herrin already asnwered that and said that 2 was better than 4. And, with all his championships, and his record with the 700 Peerless, I'm thinking he'd be the man to listen to!!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 07, 2007, 12:49:16 am
Well I will go over it again. I prefer two key shafts. I personally have better luck with the two key shafts than I have with the 4 key shafts. The 2 key do shift much easier. I like that. Is the 4 key stronger than the two key..... Some say yes some say no. I say you cannot prove to me they are. Of the 3 4 key tranny's I have used I broke keys in them. I have never broke a key in a two key shaft. And boys and girls I believe I have had and have some of the biggest HP motors in any circut out there. So with the results I have had with a 2 key shaft versus a 4 key shaft, I will and do stick to the 2 key shafts. I have ran 42+ races on one set of keys. Never have had such luck with a 4 key shaft.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on July 09, 2007, 02:44:04 pm
Then two shift keys it shall be............



Do you guys do anything special with the little yellow plastic plug on the top of the tranny?....or just leave it  alone?

I saw one guy who had a hose hooked to it that went to a small bottle just above the tranny, he said it was used as a vent, reservoir, and the bottle was to catch any grease or oil that would come out when it got hot, and when cool off it would return to the tranny kind like a radiator on a car. That sounded a little odd, but then again,  it seemed to make sense.
I will say this, when I nuked my tranny last week after a good run, I grabbed the input pully and burned the heck out of my hand. that thing was seriously hot. 
 
Your thoughts?.....or should I ignore it and go back to sleep?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: outlawmower on July 09, 2007, 02:50:17 pm
There was a discussuion somewhere around here about that. George said that you should run that hose from the place where you are talking about to over the chain somehow so when oil comes out it will lube your chain.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 09, 2007, 05:15:20 pm
I answered that somewhere... But here it is again, I use the safety swtch/detent switch mill or grind it till nut part is 1/8 thick. Tap center out for 1/8 thread screw an old fuel inlet nipple off an older one piece flat head carb. Attach a hose run it over and zip tie it so end is over my chain. Thus any spillage comes out on the chain!!!! It MUST be vented somehow!!!!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowerracer313 on July 09, 2007, 10:04:11 pm
Well I have been trying the two key shafts and like George said keys are holdin up better than the four key
The problem im havin is third gear either strips teeth off both gears or just shatters the gear on the shift shaft   Do I need steel gears or am i doing something wrong
I go from second to third on the starts and i use the clutch when i shift   Is that too much for it???
Thanks for all the help
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 09, 2007, 10:34:35 pm
Brian running a twin you shouldn't have to shift!!!!. i NEVER SHIFT. If you are having to shift I would guess you are not geared properly to start with. And if ya having that much trouble with the gears then yes I would put steel one in it.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowerracer313 on July 10, 2007, 04:09:06 pm
Well if I dont start in second I tend to kill it on the line
its just me
I will have to try the steel gears
Thanks George
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Scott on July 11, 2007, 12:35:09 am
E.C.Distributing will be selling brand new 700-023 transmissions raced prepped and ready to go. Add gear lube sprocket and go race. Price will be 250.00

Do you still have any of these?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 11, 2007, 07:22:26 am
Sold the last one yesterday but have more on the way!!!!!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mcinnis90 on July 22, 2007, 12:17:46 am
George, any chance you have a used, non-race prepped 700 for sale? Or one close to that possibly for cheap?

Eric
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 22, 2007, 01:22:10 am
Sorry Eric. I don't only the new one's at work. All I have left are my personal race tranny's they are not for sale.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mcinnis90 on July 22, 2007, 01:33:50 am
Hehe, that's alright, I'll keep lookin' around, and I can't blame you for wanting to keep your own parts ;) Thanks anyways.

Eric
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: jordanfr13 on October 22, 2007, 07:49:00 pm
I have been running a 5 speed tranny in my tractors for a long time, but recently, I've had to keep changing parts at random to make it work. Something inside keeps slipping, and I have raised the bottom bevel gear to make better contact with the large bevel, and it still slips just as bad. I have no idea what else could be wrong. What could be wrong?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on October 22, 2007, 07:59:07 pm
Why do you think its inside the tranny thats the slipping issue. Parts generally don't slip inside if they do something obviuosly breaks.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowfast1 on October 22, 2007, 08:10:50 pm
If you mean slipping, like jumping out of gear under power. check the shift keys to see if they are rounded on the tips at all, it doesn't take much at all!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: jordanfr13 on October 23, 2007, 11:21:51 am
Last night I realized that the sproket is slipping on the splined shaft. I replaced the shaft and the sproket with the parts from another transmission, and now it works, except that now when I shift down it still slips. Any tips on how to fix that? Also, I put the oil seal in and put silicone around the edges where the two halves meet, but it is still leaking alot of oil. I used 80/90 gear oil, so I don't know why it would leak so much, especially through the brass bushings.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: nor66 on October 23, 2007, 12:06:39 pm
Are the bushings worn badly? Do you have transmission vented? If tranny is not vented the gear oil is going to build pressure inside the tranny and look for the easiest escape! Do you have too much oil in the tranny? I think George said it only takes about 7 to 8 ounces. Have you checked the shifter keys? if they are even slightly rounded will cause a slip under load. Is the rear sprocket teeth worn? Have you checked the keyway on the input shaft? Sometimes they can wear and cause the pulley to slip, I had a DNF this year because of that!!!! I know that is a lot of questions but I am trying to go over everything that will cause the problems you are having! Hope it helps!!!!

OH! My advice is not to down shift!!! Tranny is not designed for that. The less shifting you do the longer the tranny will last! Get it in gear and leave it!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: jordanfr13 on October 24, 2007, 05:13:01 pm
Can someone show me how to make an oil breather? Doesn't all the oil just shoot out right aways?
Sorry, how to vent the tranmission without loosing oil
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on October 24, 2007, 05:18:10 pm
Don't need one I simply put a fitting in the neautral safety switch attach a hose and hang the end over my chain. If you have 6 to 8 oz in it you will only see seapages around the brass bushing if you have the case halfs sealed properly.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: nor66 on October 24, 2007, 05:19:21 pm
Can someone show me how to make an oil breather? Doesn't all the oil just shoot out right aways?
Sorry, how to vent the tranmission without loosing oil

I don't want to sound mean but you need to read this entire thread, everything you need to know is in here, and explained well, hope it helps!!!!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: jordanfr13 on October 27, 2007, 07:52:58 pm
Does anyone know where I could get the shaft where the sproket goes on?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on October 27, 2007, 09:10:13 pm
Any dealership that sells tecumseh parts like E.C. Distributing they are app. 80.00
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: jordanfr13 on October 28, 2007, 09:42:09 pm
Two of my 5 speed shafts have worn out splines, and I was wondering if you do anything to prevent that, because I know that 3 speed cross shifts have a keyway and they seem to work much better than splines.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on October 29, 2007, 06:58:04 am
Never wore one out more than likely it was badly wore before you got it.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on October 29, 2007, 07:33:55 am
Two of my 5 speed shafts have worn out splines, and I was wondering if you do anything to prevent that, because I know that 3 speed cross shifts have a keyway and they seem to work much better than splines.
"3 speed cross shifts" are probably Foote trannys...and they have bigger issues to deal with. Splines are actually a stronger torsional connection than a keyway/key...
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: chini on November 03, 2007, 11:13:16 pm
  Are all the shafts the same? I would like to covert some course splines to fine splines.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on November 04, 2007, 01:57:05 am
in 700's yes they course spline interchange with fine spline.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: chini on November 04, 2007, 10:11:14 am
  Does anyone have a fine spline output shaft they would get rid of. Or we could trade shafts if you want. Kevin
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: taw77 on November 05, 2007, 10:21:08 pm
The part numbers you have listed for the shifter key 792089A and the input needle bearings 780086A, are those for single parts or do the come as pairs?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on November 05, 2007, 10:24:35 pm
shifter keys come in pairs now the needle bearings come individually.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: taw77 on November 05, 2007, 10:38:50 pm
Thanks,dose E.C sell that stuff?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on November 05, 2007, 10:41:25 pm
Yes we do... and much more. We sell so much its hard to keep it in stock!!!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: birdman_express on December 24, 2007, 04:32:40 am
George,

Earlier in the year, you had some discussion about using alternate (unamed) lubricants than those you mention your race prep. Were you able to give these a thorough test and how does your evaluation of these stand up?

Marc
Title: Re: 700 SERIES TRANNY and using Spacers for new S/S Rules
Post by: Flipper on December 24, 2007, 08:59:20 am
Hi George!!, Happy Holidays!!!

I hear the new rules for Super Stock/IMOW  about "Shift Blocker" ,  have passed. They will be not allowed for 2008 (A blocker to stop the shift lever from migrating past the "Race-Gear").... I like this new rule!...

I am using a 700-023 5 speed, (3rd)Third gear being my race gear(8-1) So , in order to make my vehicle's legal, My thoughts are to remove 4th and 5th gear from the output shaft cluster, or, remove 4th & 5th from both clusters/shafts.

I would need a spacer that would be the width of the last two gears(4th and 5th)that is wide enough in diameter to stop the shift keys( almost like an internal blocker).......does that sound like something EC can make?

I figure I will need at least six spacers for all three vehicles.

I overheard someone saying something about removing 4th and 5th and sliding 1st, 2nd & 3rd all the way over so, race gear(3rd) would be the final gear. ......guess I confused as to how that would work....should there be some sort of spacer that the shift keys can pass thru?....

Thanks!!!!!

Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on December 24, 2007, 09:17:49 am
George,

Earlier in the year, you had some discussion about using alternate (unamed) lubricants than those you mention your race prep. Were you able to give these a thorough test and how does your evaluation of these stand up?

Marc


OK as for lubricants I wasn't happy with the heat factors of most of the others I tried over the 07 season. Ultimately I went back to good ole gear lube. While synthetic does keep it a TICK cooler the standard gear lube does finne. I use Walmart brand dark blue bottle (don't remember the viscosity. While I didn't loose a tranny all year I didn't want them so hot I could not touch one. And the walmart lube does the trick. Nov racesomewhere around 240 laps on it thruought the day with good ole wally world gear lube and not a problem at all.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on December 24, 2007, 09:23:36 am
Hi George!!, Happy Holidays!!!

I hear the new rules for Super Stock/IMOW  about "Shift Blocker" ,  have passed. They will be not allowed for 2008 (A blocker to stop the shift lever from migrating past the "Race-Gear").... I like this new rule!...

I am using a 700-023 5 speed, (3rd)Third gear being my race gear(8-1) So , in order to make my vehicle's legal, My thoughts are to remove 4th and 5th gear from the output shaft cluster, or, remove 4th & 5th from both clusters/shafts.

I would need a spacer that would be the width of the last two gears(4th and 5th)that is wide enough in diameter to stop the shift keys( almost like an internal blocker).......does that sound like something EC can make?

I figure I will need at least six spacers for all three vehicles.

I overheard someone saying something about removing 4th and 5th and sliding 1st, 2nd & 3rd all the way over so, race gear(3rd) would be the final gear. ......guess I confused as to how that would work....should there be some sort of spacer that the shift keys can pass thru?....

Thanks!!!!!


Why make when you can buy them already made 786072 is the spacer for the shift key shaft. Has two internal tabs that slide into the key way shaft blocking the shift key from goin into the gears you removed thus making 3rd your hoghest gear....For the splined shaft 786071 or a spacer can be made for it because there is nothing inside no spline or tab they are 3/8 inch thick. While I do not have them in stock I can order them. They are app. 4.00 each. and allows you to remove and lock out anything past your race gear making it the highest gear with no lock outs or moving gears to end of shaft leaving you with mulitiple neutrals.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: birdman_express on December 24, 2007, 09:27:04 am

OK as for lubricants I wasn't happy with the heat factors of most of the others I tried over the 07 season. Ultimately I went back to good ole gear lube. While synthetic does keep it a TICK cooler the standard gear lube does finne. I use Walmart brand dark blue bottle (don't remember the viscosity. While I didn't loose a tranny all year I didn't want them so hot I could not touch one. And the walmart lube does the trick. Nov racesomewhere around 240 laps on it thruought the day with good ole wally world gear lube and not a problem at all.

Very good, this is the very reason I waited for you to test this out. No need to go experimenting on my equipment, when have already done the R & D for us. And the answer to as why to keep using the old stand by, is good enough for me.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: cycloneracer on December 24, 2007, 02:41:59 pm
I tired tractor hyd fluid in mine for one race.  Didn't foam and lubed well, but it is just to thin and leaks.  It made me nervous so I went back to the Amsoil 80-90 full synthetic.  No more leaks!  Didn't "feel" any performance difference, so I'm sticking with gear lube also!

Paul
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on December 24, 2007, 03:10:57 pm

Why make when you can buy them already made 786072 is the spacer for the shift key shaft. Has two internal tabs that slide into the key way shaft blocking the shift key from goin into the gears you removed thus making 3rd your hoghest gear....For the splined shaft 786071 or a spacer can be made for it because there is nothing inside no spline or tab they are 3/8 inch thick. While I do not have them in stock I can order them. They are app. 4.00 each. and allows you to remove and lock out anything past your race gear making it the highest gear with no lock outs or moving gears to end of shaft leaving you with mulitiple neutrals.


Awesome.....RIGHT YOU ARE!!!!...786071 & 786072....I just took apart and old 700-039 clunker 4 spd.....and there they are, right in front me....I see that tabs you are talking about for the keyed shaft, I just have to make sure I align the tabs up with the two shift keys to act as a blocker.(two keys per your previous recommendation)...........perrrrfect!...Thanks!
...and adding a vent/hose made a huge difference too!

I have tried "00" grease, and 80/90 wht gear oil.....I think the tranny likes the gear oil better. The last stuff I used was Lucas Oil & Mobil One 80/90 Sythetic....seems to run smoother....and easier to clean out.

Thanks again George!


Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: redline on January 06, 2008, 02:23:26 pm
Just tore down a recently aquired 740, and I noticed that of the four bushings (output shaft-2, countershaft-2) only one is the typical bronze, the other three are grey in color, and of these only one has the "ear" that located it in the housing and keeps it from spinning. Would I be correct in assuming that these should be replaced for race use to keep the bushing from spinning in the case. The two bushings in question are not worn either, it appears thatthey were just manufactured without that tab...
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on January 06, 2008, 03:13:34 pm
Definitely Loose the gray steel bushings on all four corners...

They truly will spin and lock up on you at a really inappropriate time and ruin your day not to mention your tranny case..

(been there done that)
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 06, 2008, 03:19:38 pm
Definitely Loose the gray steel bushings on all four corners...

They truly will spin and lock up on you at a really inappropriate time and ruin your day not to mention your tranny case..

(been there done that)


YUP
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: stubbysteve on January 06, 2008, 06:18:24 pm
George can the 700 H pattern be prepped the same way? and are the bottom cases the same,cause i have an inline 700 with the bottom case busted.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 06, 2008, 06:29:51 pm
You mean a I wasn't aware there was a H pattern 700. if thats so I have no clue about interchangability.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on January 06, 2008, 07:07:56 pm
Check the Foote vs 700 thread...

I think your thinking of a Foote 3 speed and no  they are not interchangeable....
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Scurry Murry on January 06, 2008, 09:23:39 pm
Well, he could have a Peerless 700H series tranny.

I have a peerless book and it pretty much says anything known to man about the peerless transmission company or their predecessors.

(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w96/RPM-Racer/th_scan0002.jpg) (http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w96/RPM-Racer/scan0002.jpg)

So now we know there is H shifter patterns out there that aren't FOOTES.

Thanks

Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 07, 2008, 06:45:18 am
I have that book and so many others but havn't used em in years. Most of what I know is in the head and when you do one thing so much no need for the book. As for the 700 H pattern never seen one in person thus I had no clue they existed. As for parts interchangability. Looks like some maybe. BUT till you get one side by side and start swapping ya not gonna know.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowchanic on January 15, 2008, 03:50:50 pm
George,
When you add a washer to the pinion shaft to remove the play do you put it under the pinion gear or outside at the pulley? Tony
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on January 15, 2008, 04:09:12 pm
It would have to be inside under the pinion to bring it "closer" to the spur and take up play...

If it was outside under pulley it would pull away from spur and have more play.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: twigs-scrapiron on March 16, 2008, 01:31:19 pm
Yesterday I went to make a test run with my racing mower, and my chain snapped, and when I went to see what happened, I noticed my 700 series transmission leg cracked off :( Has this ever happened to anyone here? How could I prevent it from happening again?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mightymowe on March 16, 2008, 03:05:14 pm
Mount it on a plate that is much more solid than the stock lawn tractor pan.It may have snapped from chassis flex.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Squidd on March 16, 2008, 04:53:34 pm
Yep heavy mounting plate to eliminate twist in frame (bonus is it'll help handling as well)
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: twigs-scrapiron on March 16, 2008, 11:02:09 pm
After taking apart the tranny, I also noticed that the splined shaft the sprocket is on it bend just outdie the casing. I have no idea what could have caused all this to happen other than getting somthing caught in the chain, and ipping it all apart.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: pushtothepits on April 02, 2008, 10:46:11 pm
George, Is it worthwhile to thread drain plug in the bottom of the tranny. If so have you tried it? Was making my mounting plate today and thought about locating a maintanence hole for this. Also, I noted in one of your build threads that you run your drive chain on the right hand side of your machine. My trnny being a peerless 501 only has 1 output on it on the left hand side. Does this affect handling during acceleration? Your input would be greatly appreaciated
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on April 02, 2008, 10:54:06 pm
no I never put a drain in them. My thought is you do that it just gives the case somehwere to break. Doesn't matter which siode chain is on
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: pushtothepits on April 02, 2008, 11:09:36 pm
thanks a bunch.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: lowgalaxie on June 02, 2008, 01:20:47 am
How can you tell the difference between the steel gears and stamped gears (input and bevel does some have pics of each)
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on June 02, 2008, 06:49:34 am
Theel gears are silver not golden color and they have obvious machine marks on them.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: twigs-scrapiron on June 13, 2008, 03:15:53 pm
I went to Napa today, and when I gave them the part number for the seal, they said they don't have such a part. Any idea why?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: nor66 on June 13, 2008, 06:16:15 pm
They can get em... Your just not talking to the right person that where I got mine  last year but get ready those little boogers are like $12 at Napa. I found a place local that sells them for like $5 I think its been aawhile since I bought any.. Try Oreilley auto parts I am pretty sure they told me they could get them as well, Be sure to give them the Federal Mogul #
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowrider2000 on June 13, 2008, 10:58:49 pm
I just got one today at CarQuest. 5.60 ordered it yesterday.  The number George listed in the tranny build thread is a National number.  CR number is 6106
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Rooster on July 20, 2008, 08:35:28 pm
When yu buy bearing's and seals, you can usually get a better deal on them at a bearing supplier. Like IBT.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on July 23, 2008, 08:49:01 am
Racers:
When prepping a Peerless/Tecumseh 700 transmission, removing reverse is standard procedure. Do you remove the gears also? Or just the chain?
My thoughts were to leave the gears so it would help distribute the lubricant rather than leave a “Dead-Spot” one side of the sump?

Your thoughts?
Thanks

This may have been covered previously, I searched but might have overlooked it.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 23, 2008, 08:51:46 am
I remove it less rotating weight and oil gets to the bushings on that side quicker and easier with them not in place.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on July 23, 2008, 08:59:16 am
10-4...thanks..makes sence.

how about this one.....I am getting a significant loud “whine” from the tranny after prepping it. The unit(s) seem to work well but the whine is rather noticeable.(the application is Superstock/IMOW)

I removed the grease and re-filled with gear lube.  Do you think this may be to improper shimming of the input gears?
Or did I overlook something else?

Will you be in Fredericksburg VA this weekend?
Thanks again.

Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 23, 2008, 09:18:53 am
Won't be in VA. The whine is not uncommon, the one in mine has been doing it (louder than what I call normal) all season and keep pulling it apart and never find any sign of wear. Not sure why some are louder than others.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: THawley08 on July 24, 2008, 10:59:42 pm
The whine is the gears meshing together with different pitches. Some whine more than others.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on July 25, 2008, 08:18:56 am
Yep, I checked into it and it's coming from the beveled input gears. I might try some experimentation by shimming the small conical input gear on the bottom.
My buddy set up the rear differential on my SUV after a rebuild, he just showed me how he gets rid of the whine by adding/removing shims.
Although, I don’t see any excessive wear on either gear at this point. I’ll let you know my findings.

Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on July 30, 2008, 09:40:34 am
OK you Peerless Tranny Guru’s…….gotta question.

Is there any difference between a 700-0** and a "H"700-0**????
I acquired a brand spankin new H700-026 5 speed dirt cheap, it looks the same as a 700-026.
Have not cracked it open yet.
Can’t find a parts list for the “H” version to confirm that they are the same….just curious.

NOTE…this is not the “700H” which has the H patter Shift Lever. This identical to the 700-023,026,039 ext


Thnx!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 30, 2008, 11:14:37 am
Best I can tell to my books no difference
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on July 30, 2008, 12:30:41 pm
10-4 .......that was my suspitions too......Thanks Sir!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: amcchevy1 on July 30, 2008, 01:10:05 pm
maybe it is a year code, manufacture date or maybe a batch code.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: redline on August 05, 2008, 08:53:31 am
Joey, did you ever get that loud trans figured out? I ran across this last weekend. My problem ended up being that the case was a bit large for the bushing in the trans plate. You could "draw" the trans down into it by tightening the bolts, but it caused the case to distort slightly, and then made the input whine like crazy. The trans was louder than the engine! Took the trans out and sanded down the case until it would drop into the bushing without it having to be drawn in, and it quieted right up.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on August 05, 2008, 02:56:19 pm
Not a bad idea at all!!!!.......that could be part of the problem, if not all of it.....I have a real bad habit of overtightening things.  I am using all 6 bolts on the bottom of the case......on my three IMOW's, I have two that whine and one that does not....all of the trannies are identical 700-026's...I'll bet the quiet one has "looser" mounting bolts.......I'll let you know my findings.

Thank you very much for the info!.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: redline on August 05, 2008, 03:44:03 pm
It wasn't looser mounting bolts, but a less tight fit between the trans case and support bushing on the trans. Does the trans pull right out  when unbolted, or do you have to slighly pry it out? That was my problem.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on August 06, 2008, 08:32:45 am
On one,  I had to tap it out with a rubber mallet, the other just dropped right out.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: redline on August 06, 2008, 08:53:12 am
On the one you had to tap out, try sanding down the case a bit so it drops right in. It may be that it is slightly distoring the case. That was my problem. Would not be the problem on the one that came right out.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on August 06, 2008, 12:05:41 pm
10-4...will do...and thanks.
I will be doing routine maintenance very soon on both of them.I will check the input shaft housing tolerance then. I also need to put in (6) 5/16x18 Helicoils on the bottom studs that hold the Tranny in.....like I said...I have a bad habit of overtightening them.
Thanks again.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: appleseed07 on November 14, 2008, 06:33:31 pm
Hey George, I bought a tranny from EC this summer. I was wondering if there is suppose to be a little bit of leakage around the input shaft? I was tearing my racer apart and notice some fluid on the pulley, it wasn't a lot. Thanks for all work you do to help us racers keep going in this awesome sport of lawn mower racing!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowless002 on January 28, 2009, 05:58:40 am
Hey all, just wondering about a few points with the 700 trans,

if you are racing or just road testing racers, is it better to leave the trans in one gear or is it ok to shift up and down providing the torque from the motor is  off

and can you turn the trans upside down and still use it no worries (as in input shaft was on the bottom now on the top)

any info would be a great help cheers :D :D

also i am seeing how long the MTD Yardman rear diff centre will last now that i have welded the spider gears together to keep power to both wheels(my yardman seems to go very well now) so i will let you all know if it is good or not
                                                      cheers all :3gears: :woohoo:
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 28, 2009, 06:40:15 am
Hey George, I bought a tranny from EC this summer. I was wondering if there is suppose to be a little bit of leakage around the input shaft? I was tearing my racer apart and notice some fluid on the pulley, it wasn't a lot. Thanks for all work you do to help us racers keep going in this awesome sport of lawn mower racing!

Not sure how I missed this BUT its not uncommon after a season to see some. I always put new oil seals in them after each season. Fact the one on my prurple mowers has maybe 14 races on it and looked in the trailer last night and noticed a drip about the size of a dime under it. Time to put a new seal. Some last longer than others. I mean look what we do to them. I am amazed they last at all.
Hey all, just wondering about a few points with the 700 trans,

if you are racing or just road testing racers, is it better to leave the trans in one gear or is it ok to shift up and down providing the torque from the motor is  off

and can you turn the trans upside down and still use it no worries (as in input shaft was on the bottom now on the top)

any info would be a great help cheers :D :D

also i am seeing how long the MTD Yardman rear diff centre will last now that i have welded the spider gears together to keep power to both wheels(my yardman seems to go very well now) so i will let you all know if it is good or not
                                                      cheers all :3gears: :woohoo:

They are not designed to shift while moving they can be but you taking a big risk. Never used one upside down so could say if it would work or not. My thought is not for long the important parts would not get lubricated very well.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: mowless002 on January 28, 2009, 10:16:23 am
Thanks very much for that george, i will now remount the 700 trans in the chassis

By the way, i have been following your mtd build thread and it is AWESOME and is helping me with alot of problems i was having(i know it was 2007 when you built it ) but it is helping a newbie start out

Again cheers :D :D :D
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Mowerpar on February 01, 2009, 06:42:53 am
I took my 700 apart to give it a rebuild (bushings, bearings and oil seal) and ws trying o figure out where the oil seal was.  And looking closer at the bearing i saw 2 o rings inside the bottom bearing.  Is this a normal thing or what?  The numbers on it are INA SCF1012 if interested.  The top bearing has the same size as the replacement bearing that I'm putting in.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 01, 2009, 10:31:03 am
Some of the bearing did have small o-rings, some do some don't I don't think it is in any paticular model. The oil seal goes into the bottom instead of the o-ring. Also if its the short bearings I make a spacer one just loose enough to slip in the housing yet big enough it will not make contact with the shaft. This keeps the bearings from walking towards each other. SOMEtimes once the old bearings are pressed out and new ones in they are not as tight and the bottom one tends to walk up inside the snout to the top one causing it to wear prematurly and it tends to wear a groove in the shaft too.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: swmoracer on February 26, 2009, 10:55:32 pm
I am building 708B and am replacing the input gear.I thought it was steel so got the gear for that model number and the new one is gold in color. Now I am thinking it is not the right one.Also two of my bushings are dark in color not brass.Do I need to throw these in the junk pile and get brass one.New to this so help would be great!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 26, 2009, 11:48:56 pm
the gear you got is not steel, and yes toss the dark bushings and replace them with the brass ones.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: swmoracer on February 27, 2009, 04:54:41 pm
I am going to order the correct gear for that now.The problem I have now is I am going to order the bevel gear too but the one that came out of my trans has the gear for first attached to it as one unit.Do you have a part number for one like that.Or am I going to have to buy them individualy.Thanks fo the help!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on February 27, 2009, 05:58:07 pm
cALL ME mONDAY AT ec 615-446-6807
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: raceswithtractors on May 21, 2009, 10:25:55 am
THANKS GEORGE
Hey George, Where can I get the azuza steering wheel hub and aluminum 20 tooth sprocket????
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on May 21, 2009, 10:41:59 am
we have the hub the sprocket prolly APS karting
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: The Tank on August 19, 2009, 12:18:45 pm
Just thought I'd add another seal number for the input shaft. The John Deere part # is E72193.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: ihcubcadet on January 08, 2010, 01:00:55 pm
Hi, I am building a racer from an old ariens and am using a 700 tyranny with the fine 36 spline shafts. I have 8 tooth sprockets but I think it would be best to use more like a 12 or 14 tooth. Can any one tell me where I can find gears to fit thees splines or is there a better way of using thees tyrannys. I also have a 700 with the coarse 9 spline.
Thanks. :confused: :worried:
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: The Tank on January 08, 2010, 01:03:45 pm
Order a quick change hub from EC Distributing and you can buy a sprocket of choice to go on the quick change hub, well worth the money.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: TeamScoot on January 08, 2010, 05:43:28 pm
if you dont want to go that route, the first page of this thread has part numbers for different tooth sprockets
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on January 08, 2010, 07:07:27 pm
Hi, I am building a racer from an old ariens and am using a 700 tyranny with the fine 36 spline shafts. I have 8 tooth sprockets but I think it would be best to use more like a 12 or 14 tooth. Can any one tell me where I can find gears to fit thees splines or is there a better way of using thees tyrannys. I also have a 700 with the coarse 9 spline.
Thanks. :confused: :worried:


http://www.eccarburetors.com/estore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5_7_45&sort=20a&page=4
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: jerb on January 08, 2010, 07:12:02 pm
anybody know where to get an 11 tooth sprocket for the 32 spline, that would be awesome....i run a 12 and 48, some tracks i run on an 11 and 48 would be the ticket, dont really have room for much bigger on the axle....
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: jerb on January 09, 2010, 12:42:52 am
anybody??? i have not been able to find any 11 tooth 40 series sprocket without a hub....even a blank would work, have searched a bunch of places, i see peerless makes a 10 but what the chance of getting one of those, i have one with a 1/2'' hub, but milling that off and welding it to a brake disc would be a pain in the butt, not to mention of questionable durability, my first one i made with a brake disc split in half and cost me a race....it was a steel disc and i'm a competent welder.....any ideas guys, i could use a blank and plasma cut to fit an ec hub which i have.......
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Jeff Digou (Pitguy) on January 09, 2010, 10:37:09 am
http://www.mcmaster.com/#sprockets/=5atpr0

This site has a 11 tooth sprocket   
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Flipper on January 09, 2010, 07:36:45 pm
Pityguy, you're on the right track. I use the Mcmaster Carr 1" bore, case hardened teeth, 12,13,14 tooth #40 sprockets. I take the standard Peerles disc brake(fine splined), stick them in a vice and press them to the Peereless disc brake and weld them up. Pretty easy.

the only problem with that is, the 11 tooth only goes up to a 7/8" bore,(From what I see....will keep looking)

Good call Pitguy!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: carolinablue on January 09, 2010, 07:40:55 pm
I also think 420 chain pitch is the same 1/2" you could get one for a motorcyle
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Jeff Digou (Pitguy) on January 09, 2010, 08:56:03 pm
Wouldn't be hard for a machine shop to open it up to a 1" bore.   
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: junkyard on May 14, 2010, 10:20:35 pm
i would like to say thanks for the info on the 700 and the 800 trans as i need parts for a 700 and ive got a couple of the 800 thank agin Les   :woo:
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: gobetta on May 10, 2011, 05:27:23 pm
 >:D

Can someone advise me correctly
i have heard that it is better to put  grease in the 700 tranny as this is what works the best and covers the gears the best

I have some grease - spent a fortune on it too ARGH!!!!!!

or does the racer work better with oil/ what should i get then?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: THawley08 on May 10, 2011, 06:17:32 pm
We use John Deere cornhead grease. Turns to an oil when hot.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on May 10, 2011, 09:12:04 pm
I fried a many on grease before I changed to gear lube WALMART brand and never looked back. One in my Super Sportsman is starting its third season
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Wheelhorseracer on May 11, 2011, 08:15:11 am
Have you ever broke a 700 with a Centrifugal clutch George?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Big Mike on July 18, 2011, 04:26:14 pm
George.......I do not put needle bearings on the shafts.


why dont you?
also how many times do you have to change the bushings out??
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: y2grogory on July 24, 2011, 05:13:38 am
Hey all

I live in the UK and the problem i have is Tecumseh has gone bust in Europe and so getting parts is very difficult now.

I need a Input oil seal Part No: 788083 but am only able to get one from the US. Making it very expensive.

I need the exact dimensions of the seal and possible a good picture of one so i can try and get it matched up to something else.

I have tried all the places that sell mower parts etc but nothing yet.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Bolens16 on July 24, 2011, 07:21:17 am
The seal dimensions are 5/8" x 13/16" x 1/8" I get mine from an engineers supplies store. This part number may or may not be of some use B102472070.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: y2grogory on July 24, 2011, 07:38:11 am
cheers for the reply is there a website address for the engineering company and is it UK based?

Dont have a pic at all?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Bolens16 on July 25, 2011, 02:14:30 am
Sorry I'm in New Zealand so could be a bit tricky. I will however check and see where they source their seals. More than likely Japan or China.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: s.jenkins on July 25, 2011, 02:42:25 pm
When you remove the reverse chain from the 700 series, is it necessary to remove gears also? If so, are part numbers 786071 and 786072 what I need?
Will these parts fit a 700-758 series (3 speed slider)

Thanks
S.Jenkins
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: birdman_express on July 25, 2011, 03:31:46 pm
Gears do not need to be in for spacing, take them out.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: y2grogory on July 28, 2011, 03:49:44 am
The seal dimensions are 5/8" x 13/16" x 1/8" I get mine from an engineers supplies store. This part number may or may not be of some use B102472070.
Hey all

I live in the UK and the problem i have is Tecumseh has gone bust in Europe and so getting parts is very difficult now.

I need a Input oil seal Part No: 788083 but am only able to get one from the US. Making it very expensive.

I need the exact dimensions of the seal and possible a good picture of one so i can try and get it matched up to something else.

I have tried all the places that sell mower parts etc but nothing yet.



Following the last couple of questions i asked has anyone managed to get a picture/photo of this tricky little seal?

I need to know what its made of i.e. rubber, copper, synthetic etc and since I cant get a proper one a picture will definitly help me know what im looking for.

Cheers for the help so far guys/gals.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 28, 2011, 06:24:03 am
Its made just like any other oil seal. its just a small one.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Bolens16 on July 28, 2011, 07:28:23 am
Its a fairly standard looking single lip seal. It is rubber all over and, because of its size, does not have a spring in behind the lip. I would have to take a trans out and apart to get a pic of a seal.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Burwell555 on July 29, 2011, 01:04:20 am
Well obviously it fits a 5/8 shaft. Making it a 5/8 I'd. Measure the I'd of the case where the seal would go and start your search...
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: y2grogory on July 29, 2011, 04:12:19 am
Cheers guys I'm going to get this sorted now, is an o-ring likely to work before I go crazy though?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Bolens16 on July 29, 2011, 06:21:18 am
It has an "O" ring in behind the input pinion stock. It will generally not hold oil in the trans.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Big Mike on August 13, 2011, 12:15:50 pm
what size is the bolts that go into the 700 bottom.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on August 13, 2011, 01:04:08 pm
5/16 standard thread
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Big Mike on August 13, 2011, 02:20:25 pm
5/16 standard thread

thx George
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Okie-Chopper on August 19, 2011, 09:33:58 pm
A question on the peerless output shaft bushings,   on the side you have the sprocket mounted on, does   it wear out somewhat faster than the empty side?  Should it be checked every 3rd or 4 th race that is put on it?  I would like to be safe about it.  I would rather ask a dumb  question than make a stupid mistake.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: oldgoatdriver on August 20, 2011, 11:11:26 pm
I just finished building the “Mo-racer” with a 700-02 in it. After I put on the required safety gear I started up the mower and put it in gear, but nothing happened. :noplease: The Retaining Ring (Snap ring) on top of the input shaft broke. I think I know that the shaft is 5/8 but what do I need to know about that snap ring it seems I may have used the wrong size. What size is it and how do I get a stronger one?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: follower of JESUS on August 20, 2011, 11:29:14 pm
Speaking from experience, find the part number for that snap ring in parts list at the top of this thread and get that particular snap ring. Apparently it is a heat threated high quality snap ring made specifically for that application.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: oldgoatdriver on August 21, 2011, 01:45:07 pm
ok I'm not finding the part number for that snap ring in parts list at the top of this thread. Nor where to order it.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: follower of JESUS on August 21, 2011, 02:06:46 pm
http://www.odref.com/peerless/700-SERIES/

Part # 788040 if I am viewing it correctly.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: THawley08 on August 21, 2011, 02:14:14 pm
Will shift keys from any of the transaxles work in the 700 series?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Burwell555 on August 21, 2011, 05:02:41 pm
I'm about 90 percent positive the keys from the 800 series will work. Not so sure about a 900.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on August 21, 2011, 05:53:38 pm
Will shift keys from any of the transaxles work in the 700 series?

NOPE NOT ANY
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Burwell555 on August 21, 2011, 06:30:09 pm
Really?? That's interesting. What's different about them George? I know I can put gears out of an 800 into a 700 but I'm curious on the keys now that you corrected me.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on August 21, 2011, 06:40:47 pm
700 is shorter than any other.
Title: Re: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: THawley08 on August 21, 2011, 07:22:47 pm
Dang I can get packs of 10 for the trans axle for 50 which beats the 4 for 50 im paying now by a long shot

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Burwell555 on August 21, 2011, 08:12:33 pm
Hmmm interesting!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Rooster on August 22, 2011, 01:11:56 am
Will shift keys from any of the transaxles work in the 700 series?
The 800's have the same shift keys.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on August 22, 2011, 06:41:22 am
Well I got three 800's here and mine are not the same. gears are interchangable thasts it.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Bolens16 on August 22, 2011, 06:44:14 am
The 800's have the same shift keys.
And 900 series shift keys are too long.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on August 22, 2011, 06:48:41 am
OK just looked them up 700 are the same as some 801 transaxles. mine are 820's so to say the 800's will fit is incorrect there are many 800 series. Clarify which 800 is being referred to. And according to my parts program for tecumseh the 801's is it.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: oldgoatdriver on August 22, 2011, 11:29:33 am
Speaking about shift keys what's the best place to buy them, and other 700 parts? Thawley69 Where are you getting your parts?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Rooster on August 22, 2011, 11:36:04 am
I guess I should have been more clear.
When I said the 800's I meant thee "800/801 series" not the "820 series".

The "800/801 series" are the same.

Part Number used to be 792089A but I think that is superseded now?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: THawley08 on August 22, 2011, 12:32:06 pm
Thinking of seeing if ones from a 920 can be made to work. They are about .5 inch longer and with some modifications to the shift fan I think I can get them to work.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Stovebolt on July 06, 2012, 09:59:37 pm
Now I do replace the input and bevel gear with steel gears, if the rest are not steel no biggie,

Excellent post, thanks for the very useful info! I am slowly plugging away at my project, and just tonight tore down my 700 for inspection and prep. However- how do I tell if I have the right gears (see quote above)? IF I understand things right, my gears could be steel, and they could be something else, maybe sintered. I put a magnet to my gears and it stuck, but that might work on sintered, too. So- how do I tell?

Also- what keeps the gear oil from drooling out between the output shaft and bushing (on both sides)? I see no mention of a seal there.

Thanks much!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Stovebolt on July 21, 2012, 08:52:20 am
Anybody?
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: George Herrin on July 21, 2012, 09:04:30 am
The steel bevel gear back will be smooth (flat with amaybe a step) the sintered will have ribs on the back, or what looks like teeth and olders ones even had first gear made to it.
As for oil seaping out thru bushings or around use rtv lightly in the bushing cvaties and when installed they are sealed there as for between the shaft and bushing thats not enough to worry about AND thats why we only use the small amount of oil. Just enough to get the job done.
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: Stovebolt on July 21, 2012, 11:27:46 am
Terrific- Thank you very much!
Title: Re: RACE PREPPING A 700 SERIES TRANNY
Post by: amadelhelm on July 24, 2016, 12:01:20 am
any output oil seals?