Author Topic: a good pullin tractor motor?  (Read 20750 times)

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Offline outlawmower

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 07:37:20 am »
No... You will need a Kohler K-Series Cast Iron block mostly for pulling. Opposed twins (Horizontel shafts not verticals) And Vanguard V-Twins work well too.

Also let me add that the Alum. Block engines are no good because of pulling stress.

Heres a article from Brian Millers Website explaing it all-



Why Aluminum Block Engines (except V-Twins) Don't Work Well for Pulling Competition -

An aluminum engine block will "bend and twist" or flex a few thousands of an inch when hot and under pulling stress. Therefore, they'll lose valuable compression because the valves become unseated and the piston rings lose partial contact against the cylinder wall. Not to mention the main bearings are also put into a bind under the stress of pulling.

Cast iron engine blocks on the other hand hold their shape a lot better when hot and under stress. Aluminum engines work best for conditions that doesn't place them in a lot of stress. Such as ATVs, racing go-karts, racing lawn mowers, etc. Because there's fresh air moving over the engine, keeping the metal cool, and the block isn't being strained by the vehicle pulling a heavy load. That's why cast iron Kohler engines work best for competitive pulling. Because cast iron is able to "hold its shape," handle high operating temperatures, severe stress, high compression and very high rpms (above 4,000 rpm). This is why riding mowers, lawn tractors, lawn and garden tractors all have aluminum block engines. And most garden tractors have a cast iron engine block.

In addition, on the cast iron block single cylinder Briggs and Stratton and Tecumseh engines, the valve stems are parallel to the cylinder. This means that the valve heads set further away from the piston. And in the cast iron block single cylinder Kohler engines, the valve heads are set closer to the piston (valve stems are angled). Therefore, the other engines can't build up as much compression as the Kohler engines can. Plus, they can't flow as much air in and out of the combustion chamber at high rpms, like the Kohler engines can.

To gain more power and torque from virtually any flathead two or twin cylinder engine, perform a professional valve job and the valve clearances will need to be increased. Resurface the cylinder heads on a flat sanding disc to insure proper head gasket sealing. Nothing else may be needed to be done to the engine, except for perhaps a professional tune up. I found that many twin cylinder engines have inadequate valve clearances and this robs the engine of proper operation and valuable power. Perform a professional valve job, and set the clearances (between the valve stems and lifters) at .010" for the intake and .014" for the exhaust. After increasing the valve clearances, the engine will start quicker, idle better and produce more power at low and high rpms. Top of page

To install a twin cylinder engine into a Cub Cadet, on the narrow and wide frame Cubs, the frame rails will need to be cut down for installation of an opposed twin cylinder engine. But the spread frame Cubs are made for the opposed twin cylinder engine. And a V-twin engine will fit in virtually into any Cub Cadet with few modifications. The frame rails shouldn't have to be altered either.

Outlaw
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Wheelhorseracer

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009, 07:45:40 am »
If I'm not mistaken.. the generator engines have a tapered end on the crankshaft. you would need to replace the crank to make a regular pulley work..

Offline Big daddy

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 02:12:50 pm »
I agree about getting a Kohler "K" series. Don't want to use a "M" series single unless all you will ever do is pull stock. But understand this about Brian Miller's web page. Most of that technology is about 15-20 years old. And some of the info. on the page is incorrect. Depending on how far you want to take the horsepower. First you will need to check your club rules concerning the class you wish to pull in, and go from there. Some clubs you must use an engine that was available in that tractor frame in order to pull in the stock class, others are different. When you get away from the stock class you start getting a little more freedom in what you can do to the motor and chassis. Like any other sport, it is how much time/money you want to spend determines how well you can do.
Bruce Litton

Offline FlatheadPuller

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 07:18:57 pm »
That garbage about aluminum blocks not being any good for pulling is just that. garbage. Vangaurds, commands, there all aluminum. You can bolt a command together with parts and make 45 honest hp. You can do the same with a vanny.

The honda will work with a correct crank shaft. As said before you must check your local clubs rules before buying and engine to make sure you can pull the trackter with the combination of engine and chassis
Dennis Bazzett
Grandville Michigan

Offline dkight

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 07:31:55 pm »
I've got a Kolher 18 hp Command I was planning on building a puller with it. Should I make other plans
or go ahead ? Flatheadpuller any input?
thanks, dkight

Offline OpposedPanzer

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2009, 07:32:37 pm »
Im with flathead on this one. and i pull with both a k series and an opposed.
Casey

Offline FlatheadPuller

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009, 07:42:25 pm »
I would run the command. The hp per dollar in a command is unbeatable in my opinion. I have built two of them with help from MWSC and there just awesome. One for a buddy and one for my stepdad. Stock bore, big hackman cam unported heads, good valve springs je pistons and good rods from MWSC. 1.2 MWSC carb on the stock 2 bbl intake. 50hp just like that. 7800rpm all day and gobs of power.
Dennis Bazzett
Grandville Michigan

Offline outlawmower

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 08:56:10 pm »
The honda will never hold up! When you put that much stress on 1 Cylinder!!! When one cylinder is only being used it creates more bending and binding of the crank and distortion of the cylinder head and cylinder bore.

It is diffrent when two cylinders are being used. The pulling stress is being distributed evenly to both sides and also can "balance" the power to weight ratio a little better.

Just my .02

Outlaw
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Offline FlatheadPuller

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009, 09:04:36 pm »
Then tell me why pulling and racing with aluminum block singles is different. You telling him the honda won't work is just like the people who told me I couldn't make an oppo win on the pulling track that has been dominated by a few S/A 14hp kohlers. Guess what, I won the points championship in my class just to show them different.


"It is diffrent when two cylinders are being used. The pulling stress is being distributed evenly to both sides and also can "balance" the power to weight ratio a little better."


What does that mean? Do you know what that means?
Dennis Bazzett
Grandville Michigan

Wheelhorseracer

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2009, 09:29:56 pm »
It is diffrent when two cylinders are being used. The pulling stress is being distributed evenly to both sides and also can "balance" the power to weight ratio a little better.

I disagree... most people use single cylinder Kohlers... many on alcohol are in the 60 plus HP range.. the cylinder is strapped to the block over the head. 90 % of the pullers are single cylinders.. I pulled with a single cylinder 8 hp Kohler.

Don't give information like that unless you know what you are talking about..

Offline outlawmower

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2009, 10:29:50 pm »
I disagree... most people use single cylinder Kohlers... many on alcohol are in the 60 plus HP range.. the cylinder is strapped to the block over the head. 90 % of the pullers are single cylinders.. I pulled with a single cylinder 8 hp Kohler.

Don't give information like that unless you know what you are talking about..

Please if you would follow the conversation a little closer, We are on the subject of ALUM. Block engines not cast iron. Cast iron is a whole diffrent story.
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Offline Big daddy

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2009, 06:36:15 am »
I would say that if the motor has a cast iron cylinder liner and has roller bearings on the crankshaft, and a inserted rod then give it a try. If all you are going to do with it is pull stock then I think you will be fine.
     As far as the command motors go, unless in a few years someone makes an aftermarket block like the Kohler "K" series people are enjoying, then you will see that engine become scarce. They were not used in production as long as the K series. They are good engines, but most clubs were built around single cylinder pulling. If I wanted to pull multi cylinder valve in head motors I would have pulled mini rods. I know Julian Stahl wants to go to nothing but twin commands.
Bruce Litton

Offline outlawmower

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2009, 06:51:52 am »
Then tell me why pulling and racing with aluminum block singles is different. You telling him the honda won't work is just like the people who told me I couldn't make an oppo win on the pulling track that has been dominated by a few S/A 14hp kohlers. Guess what, I won the points championship in my class just to show them different.


"It is diffrent when two cylinders are being used. The pulling stress is being distributed evenly to both sides and also can "balance" the power to weight ratio a little better."


What does that mean? Do you know what that means?


YES! I wouldn't say it unless I knew what it means! How bout you? Do you know what it means?

I did not say the oppo twin wouldn't work! The reason I beileved it COULD OF WORKED is because of the 2 cylinders. Much like the vanguard it may take the stress. Don'e get me wrong here the last pull of the season a guy in the twin cylinder class split a vanguard right down the middle! And picked up the two halfes be each exhaust pipe!

To me I beileve ANY ALUM Block engine can bust anytime anywhere. The ALUM Block engines were just not built for pulling "Stress".

Let me know if you can match the kohler K-Series Blocks...In all the aftermarket block, parts, the number of blocks avialable, the 2 bearings on the crank....ECT...

Outlaw
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Offline OpposedPanzer

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Re: a good pullin tractor motor?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2009, 08:34:01 am »
 :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:I Love Forums.
Casey