Author Topic: To Build or Not To Build?  (Read 32394 times)

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Offline mowdak1

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To Build or Not To Build?
« on: October 22, 2006, 03:50:05 am »
Started tearing mowers down today to start on builds and when I drug this one in and started looking I started wondering if I should tear it apart and scrap it or build it. So I'm going to seek the wisdom of the veterans, and members of mowbetter to decide!

Initially plans were to snarf the Peerless 600 out of this mowchine and send it to the scrap pile but, when I crawled underneath to look things over I ran into a few interesting discoveries on this mower.



First off, I thought it would be kinda heavy as bulky as it is, but it's not, grabbed the front end to slide it around and it wieghs nothing. About threw it across the room in fact!

Then in looking at the rear end, it's presently sitting at 11" off the ground. But, that's with 18" tires on it and, there's a 3" lift on the rear end.



By simply removing the lift and going to a 16" tire... thinking IMOW on this one guys... I can drop this thing about 4 1/2" - 5". putting me at only 6 inches on the rear end. Nearly where I want to be!! But there's mower!!

Front end is only 8 3/4" off the ground with about 3 inches drop resulting in the L spindles. So... upon losing them for a prepared front end, and losing another inch or so for the tires, I'm right in the general area again. Running boards are only 9" off the ground at present, -4" again puts me right where I want to be!!



Not mention the original plate with shift pattern notched out is already prefabricated and it has a chrome grille!



Not to mention that biiiig ugly hood hides a lot of room up front and everything is pretty open under the back end.




Not to mention that gives us LOTS of room for sponsors names! On the hood, not underneath! :D

There are however a few drawbacks...

1.) The side panels on that big ugly front end are bolted in place, limiting access to work on the engine. But... those could be unbolted, spot weld it, and hinge it with the hood.

2.) The frame on this thing is really light! Only 3 - 1/4" bolts holding the chassis plate and tunnel together, everything back there has large holes cut in it too boot.

3.) There is NOTHING in the front end to protect the engine! That lovely chrome chrille has a 3/8" expanded steel type mesh, absolutely nothing behind that. Would a slight mod to the frame to add some protection there be considered over board?

So how much reinforcement is considered NOT discreet reinforcement guys? This thing would take a wee bit of steel to wind up with anything that's gonna stand up to racing. But on the flipside, it is going in a governed class, so it doesn't have to be altogether bulletproof.

Whaddaya think guys build it or scrap it?!

Offline birdman_express

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To Build or Not To Build?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2006, 04:03:29 am »
I think there is room over the nose to take a hit....  looks to be 6 or 8"
past the axle, if i see it right.
Marc Baker

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Offline Squidd

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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2006, 06:00:01 am »
It's a builder...Especially for IMOW...

Besides...You already have your "Before" shots taken... So let's just move this thread to the Build Up Forum and get on with it...!!!:twisted:

(Why you should)

1. Light is goood...

2.I you remove 3" block and change tires your still at 7"-8" (hint...you want to find the "tallest" junk yard 16s you can find ...not low profile "racing" 16s... :wink: ) ... but either way, once you move that 3" spacer...your gonna need a Jackshaft....So punch holes in the rear box and drop 'er all the way..

3.Front axle is basic...go for it...

4.Shift pattern will move with trans axle relocation, but with careful bending, you might get the shifter back "near" the cut out. Chrome won't get you home.. But sure looks nice on the trailer.

5.Sponsors are good..."If you can read this, Flip me back over..." is also good.... :P

(Draw backs, or why you still should)

1.You gotta be flipping the hood for RPM checks anyway, so make the whole assembly hinge together...but then take it a step further...when you actually have to work on the motor have it so you pull two hinge "pins" and take the hood right off !!

2.Light is good, but think..."Discrete"...!!  :wink:

3.Stay light in the front...and try not to be Hitting Stuff!!!
You don't need a bumper or "demo derby" reinforcing behind the grill...but you will need a bar for the removable hood hinge pins...

4.If I can "see" the reinforcing...it's not very discrete...is it..????

So I think...seeing how this is your second year doing this, your the president of a LC...and you haven't even built your first mowchine yet !!!....You should move this thread (and your Butt) out of the "Coffee and Donut Shop" and down to the Build Up Forum and get cracking !!!!! :twisted:
Randy Stys
"Pull My Finger"
 63 Cub Cadet S/A

Offline Squidd

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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2006, 06:07:15 am »
I want to see "Progress Pics" Tomorrow afternoon...!!!!  
Randy Stys
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Offline birdman_express

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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2006, 06:53:23 am »
You better hup to, sargent squidd is at the command.... lol
Marc Baker

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Marc from ARC.... "Billet Billet"

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Offline mowdak1

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To Build or Not To Build?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2006, 01:15:56 pm »
Actually I've been a member of the NDLMRA for about 4 years now... have had the old Craftsman under the bench in the garage for about that long as well. And, yeah it's time to get on with a build or two, (or three, or four)!!

Room up front there is great, and I really don't anticipate any issues, but... I'm not driving this one. The sweetheart has decided she wants a mower too, and since she drives like a little old lady, I figure IMOW is a good place for her. No competition out here in that class, (occasional local builds to something resembling that respect), and since I want to push this class as what it is, an affordable entry level class, I need to build one for next to nothing to show everyone how cheap it can be to get into the sport. So...

1.) Without serious competition, and no one else wise to the world of mower racing building to this class in our area, she shouldn't be running over anything really, (Except maybe a hay bale or two), she should be out front, if not all alone. But...

2.) I'm probably not gonna get out of state without her in tow, so somewhere out there she might be in a position to run over things. Of course if she runs into anything hard enough to shove the front end back that far, the engine is probably the least of my concerns, because I have no idea where I'll ever find sheet metal for this thing again!


I did consider the taller tires routine, and chopping the frame to allow lowering it further Randy, and this one even offers a plus in that respect. The brackets on the drop mount up inside the chassis, 3 holes to drill each side; cut the frame, slide them up where I need to be, drill the holes, and it's there! Again this build is almost too easy to pass on!  :D

Not sure, but I think one of the MTD's has a taller set of 16" tires on it. If it does, no expense incurred there, further keeping my costs down. If not, I can probably find some where I found all the mowers for next to nothing.

Considered the issues with shift pattern as well, and that may take some doing, but I think it can be made to work. A little bend down back toward the transaxle, then bend it a little tighter where the present bend up is at and I should be able to get it close. Worst case, I may have to shorten the shifter up a little.

Also realize the jackshaft is necessary, and plate needed to mount that will of course add some strength to the rear half of the Mowchine. (Especially if I make it a little on the wide side.) Mounted under the running boards about where they meet the tunnel would be perfect as that would reinforce that weak point substantially, while not necessarily falling into the criteria of reinforcement.

Hadn't considered the hood having to come off for tech, but that is a good reason to weld it up and hinge the works. And, it would definitely be removable for the sake of working on things without it in the way.

The old Craftsman still is not out of the picture however... opened a bid on an 813A on E-Bay and walked away with it $50 total w/shipping. SO... I have transaxle for that project as well.

All things considered the White could come in well below budget (trying to build an IMOW for under $500) as I have a 12 hp in each of the MTDs to work with, one has compression even, so toss in an overhaul kit and it's good to go. Realisitically rings, seals, a tube of silicone in place of gaskets, a carb kit, tires off the MTDs, $50 worth of steel, spindles and joints for the steering, go with a mechanical caliper on brakes, a new seat, a few nuts and bolts, a little paint, several hours in the garage... And, we're up and mowin with this one for a really reasonable price!

Besides, everyone thinks it's a builder!  :wink:

Offline coreyk

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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2006, 01:40:16 pm »
Let me know if you want to get rid of that H pattern tranny! :D
Guilford, Ct

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To Build or Not To Build?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2006, 09:36:20 pm »
i'm building the same frame up with a 14hp opposed B and S. That was the stock engine in my mower. I specifically picked out this mower because it was so low to begin with,first thing i did was pop out the spring under the seat,than got a transmission so i could run a solid axle. all is going well so far,hoping to do something with the front axle in weeks to come.

Offline Mowindown

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To Build or Not To Build?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2006, 10:07:24 pm »
If you dont build I will buy the 600 off of ya I need one to go in my racer
Jed Mercer
Jonesborough, TN
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Offline coreyk

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« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2006, 10:10:41 pm »
If he doesnt build, i will buy it, i told him that before!
Guilford, Ct

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Offline Mowindown

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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2006, 10:16:06 pm »
Ill give him more $$$ for it  :lol:
LOL
Jed Mercer
Jonesborough, TN
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Offline mowdak1

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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2006, 10:23:03 pm »
Day 2 - of the To Build or Not To Build Project

Well given the resounding results here at MowBetter it was hard to deny this build so moving forward with things...

We introduced Driver and Mowchine!

"Whaddaya mean it's my mower?!  :omg: "
"Hmmmm!   :worried: "
"What are these dohickeys? Do I get to keep them?  8) "




"Does it even run?   :worried: "

"Sure look under the hood!  :D "

" **** Insert Your Own Censored Comments! ****   >:D "




...Lowered the seat to look at profile from a race perspective...
"I think I like this better.  :) "
"Is that supposed to work like that?  :shock: "



Actually I was a little worried about the hood clearing the dash before pulling the bolts but it did do so very conveniently!

Again I was astounded at the cooperative spirit of this build, it seems every pitfall has a silver lining! Front Axle is way narrow, plate will have to be moved forward about 3/8" - 1/2" to accomadate the prepared front end. Since the hood mounts there, this might be an issue, but... if you look closely at the bracket, it already has a hole drilled in the bracket for moving the hood back a half inch!

Donor deck off the old rear engine Murray... At a half inch or so shy of being as wide as the tires, it's precisely the length of the running board.



Oh yeah... I think I forgot to mention it was factory equipped with separate pedals. Even has them labeled so Mabel can't get confused. And!!!! Each pedal has it's own factory lock down!

For those of you wondering about the benefit of this, on LeMans start it allows you to lock the clutch pedal down so when you mount the machine you don't have to hit the clutch as you swing over and sit down to start the mowchine. Cuz it's already down! Saves a split second on take off by not having that extra little step to think about, and every split second counts in IMOW. Likewise it allows you to run the mowchine without the belt engaged and the tranny spinning in neutral.





But yes... it is beginning to look something like a build project guys!



Whaddaya think, any chance I could get away with this clutch setup with new pulleys?




Wasn't my lucky day on the tire situation however, both MTDs were running 20" tires. Back to the mower graveyard!  :D

Offline matt25001149

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To Build or Not To Build?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2006, 10:31:16 pm »
no never build a new clutch  :lol:  actually i had one and it didnt work any good ended up having to put like 4 heavy springs on it to not have it slip on a 5'' pulley on tha front and a 3'' on the back with a stock motor WTF   :evil: wich is y i junked that mower and build up my craftsman
actually because of that clutch system slipping so much and always wanting to go faster i ovverreved the 6 motors i had in it and blew them all  :evil: needless to say the BFH met that chassis the day it blew its last motor
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Offline Squidd

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« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2006, 01:11:01 am »
What...?? Didn't you get your new billet clutch in the mail...? :P

You will "most likely" have to do some movement, adjustment or remodeling of clutch to work with new belt alignment and pully resizing...

Gotta get the engine and pulley in as well as jack shaft and pulley to really see what the clutch will need...

I think your ready to move this down to the build forum...
Randy Stys
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 63 Cub Cadet S/A

Offline George Herrin

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« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2006, 01:12:12 am »
Should do the job biggest thing is if the motor pulley hits depending on size may have to move it rearward some.
George Herrin #6
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